On June 20, 2013 Nissan announced preliminary details of their long awaited LEAF Battery Replacement Program. As many early adopters started hitting the 2 year mark of ownership with their LEAFs, thoughts had turned to the long term maintenance cost of replacing the traction battery sometime in the future. The anticipation of being able to type in that one unknown number into their TCO calculations had reached a boiling point and Nissan promised pricing by Spring and they delivered on the day before Summer.
Instead of being given a price to purchase a replacement battery, Nissan announced plans to launch a Battery leasing program by early 2014. There were no specifics released, only guidelines but basically the lease would cost about $100 a month and would guarantee at least a 9 bar battery forever. Some basic FYI's
** There is no timeframe to when one can enter the program. Therefore, no one should sign up before the basic range warranty guaranteeing replacement after the 9th capacity bar is lost within 5 years/60,000 miles. This means one can start the program after 150,000 miles and with a battery degraded to 50% if they so choose to do so. However, one can enter the program AT ANY TIME.
** The terms of the program requires turning in the OEM battery which will be replaced by a 12 bar capacity battery of equal or greater quality. The capacity is covered for as long as the lease payments are made with no time limitations. Termination of the lease program by the customer will result in Nissan retrieving the leased battery WITHOUT return of the OEM battery.
** The replacement battery will be one with the most advanced technology available at the time. I could not get Andy to commit to a larger capacity in the future and without a major overhaul (and expense!) of the BMS, that might not be possible but what will happen is improvements making the battery pack more resistant to degradation by heat, greater cycling capacity, etc. (added for clarification) This does not mean that a larger capacity battery may not be in the future. Advances in size/weight reduction could potentially allow a larger capacity pack to be retrofitted but its my opinion required changes to BMS hardware/software combined with dropping new EV car prices would make that an expensive proposition
** Nissan's goal of a lease program will "level the playing field" across all dealerships. There will be no added installation fees, signup fees, etc at the dealer level.
I was invited to a conference call with Andy Palmer, Jeff Kuhlman and Brian Brockman just before the announcement and they based their decision on results of the survey knowing that there are several people who want to "own" things and what is essentially a lifetime lease is something that is somewhat alien in the auto business but is actually commonly practiced in nearly every other business. Nissan was faced with a tough decision and they really had no other car manufacturer to look at when making the decision. Other EV manufacturers want you to pay several thousand dollars years in advance for a battery (Tesla) or just quotes a price nearly equal to half the cost of the car (Ford) neither of which I personally would have been happy about so its easy to see why Nissan did not choose either of those paths. If I was creating a score card to critique;
Currently innovations in the chemistry of Lithium batteries are improving on average every 6 months. A flat one time price for a new battery (which would be with exchange so no options to have two batteries) means a very large cash commitment (with associated loan fees, interest payments, etc) which would probably result in payments more than double the $100 monthly lease fee for several years. Phoenicians with high rates of degradation could easily see replacing batteries every two years under the warranty program so flat purchase would not be in their best interests. This also allows them to pay a very modest fee until a battery chemistry robust enough is developed to handle the escalating heat issues of the Arizona desert. This allows them to continue to drive EV without worrying about the large investment in the near term due to range losses. This is a big big plus for the program.
No option to buy another pack is a drawback. The process to change out the packs should not be done by anyone who is not qualified but the process is not complex and well within the abilities of the practiced DIY'er with a well stocked garage. Special lifting equipment would be needed to maneuver the pack but it could be (and has been) done. Many had hoped to buy a new pack from Nissan and use the old pack as a battery backup for their solar systems. This is really just a small minus. There is little doubt in my mind that few would consider a purchase of a new pack without exchange simply because of the very high cost.
Replacing the lease pack below 9 bars capacity is a HUGE minus. This could potentially mean driving a LEAF with a freeway range of 55 miles for a significant amount of time while waiting for that 4th bar to disappear. That 55 miles is in Summer. In a Northwest winter it would be closer to 45 miles. Most of the people I know well who have a LEAF could not easily make that much loss work in their daily driving needs without a lot of compromise and the key here is understanding that compromise. It is one thing to buy a car, pay it off and reap the benefits of driving at a quarter to half the cost of their ICE counterparts. That benefit alone makes one's ability to accept compromise pretty high. But the level of acceptable compromise drops fast if one is paying $100 a month for a leased battery. Add to that the requirement to charge away from home and potentially away from the home PVC means another additional cost making TCO as much if not more than gas purchases.
The lease program is a huge plus for high mileage drivers. Here many easily save more than $250 a month in fuel costs which is what someone averaging 30 mpg paying $3.75 for gas logging 2000 miles would save minus electricity costs. In Steve Marsh's case, his employer provided him a charger at work so he only pays for half his electricity costs charging at home but will soon be paying for public charging (a price I strongly think is still being considered despite some recent announcements ) In reality, $100 a month for long term coverage against degradation is really unheard of in the automotive industry. With his driving needs, the highest mileage terms would be eclipsed in 3 years. The lease would cover him to a million miles if he so chose to do so. Keep in mind; prices are not set but a predictable cost is always a plus. Try doing that with your gasoline budget!
But there is the flip side here. People with low to moderate needs will be screwed. Driving 1000 miles a month means an additional cost of 10 cents a mile. With the lower annual mileage, the need for a replacement of the leased battery might outdistance the ownership of the car meaning the money paid into the program would never be recouped. Like the flat $5 Blink fast charge fee or the WA State $100 EV registration tax, flat fees simply DO NOT WORK. Sure its great for the company providing them. Easier software and accounting needs and in most cases, flat fees do work for a reasonably large percentage of the customer base so this is a small minus. A lot of talk at MNL over what would be a good purchase price for an exchanged battery and the consensus seemed to be in the $3500 range which would be more than 3 years at $100 a month after interest charges, inflation, etc are considered.
My thoughts of the announcement which are very preliminary and may be based on incorrect understanding of the information I have received thus far are understandably mixed but all of my concerns could be easily fixed by the "flat fee" issues.
Nissan feels that most LEAFers will not exercise the exchange program for the life of their LEAF driving the car 5-10 years then getting then purchasing LEAF II or III. So the lease program was the best solution to make sure that early adopters were taken care of and I agree with their decision 100%. A very large purchase price for a replacement battery to own would not work in high degradation areas even if it was under $3,000. By making it a lease program, its a predictable flat fee per month without the options of dealer added services. The pricing would be assumedly handled by their leasing arm. Although there was no mention of a lease processing fee, i could understand one of modest terms of a few hundred bucks.
But if I were Nissan, I would want a program that covers more needs. A tiered option would be the best. How about plans that cover both high mileage AND low mileage LEAF drivers?
What about $50 a month for a LEAFer that covers capacity to only 7 bars with steps to 10 or 11 bars with an increasing cost. The higher tiers should implement a time factor (replacements no sooner than 12-24 months) with a $150 (or whatever) a month lease rates.
During the conference call, Nissan stated that there are several legal issues that needs to be hammered out as the reason for the delayed 2014 launch date. Palmer did state that this lease program was Nissan's original intention when the LEAF first came out but was unable to do it based on laws and the terms of the Federal tax rebate which the LEAF would not have qualified for unless the pack was a part of the car purchase price. It is also my hope that Nissan announced the lease program to judge the reaction of the EV community and will consider that reaction when fine tuning details of the program.
I understand many of you are disappointed because we did not get the battery pack price but Nissan's reasoning is sound on this and this is really the best course of action. Its one thing to get an early model that does not have the seat heater, more efficient heat exchanger, etc but to be saddled with a 2nd very large bill for a battery is not in anyone's best interest. Traction battery technology is still in the state of rapid change and will be for years to come.
Finally; Nissan has only announced the basic intent. There were no other details provided, so the actually monthly cost, mileage limitations after entering the program, termination fees, conditions for exchange besides capacity, etc. have not been revealed and guessing its because the technology is evolving so rapidly that they simply dont know what will be available in 6 months.
Friday, June 21, 2013
Saturday, June 8, 2013
Improving Charging Options.
The announcement of Ecotality's flat $5 fast charge fee, the expected uproar from the EV community, the lengthening lines at the chargers, the nearly empty L2's, AND the accelerating sales of the LEAF may not qualify as a "brick wall" to EV acceptance. But it is likely to be a hindrance rivaling the scale of inconvenience caused by the Skagit River Bridge collapse on I-5.
It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see conspiracy theorists claiming Ecotality's announcement is a marketing move to get more L2 revenue from the disgruntled fast chargers wanting just a 10 minute blast while shortening the lines for people who actually need the full 30 minutes.
But on the eve of the start of the flat fee, Ecotality has barely acknowledged the discussion exists but one can only hope their minimal reply is a result of very active discussions at their corporate level. Now they might want to think about their own conflicting business model. On the one hand, they charge a fee based on time for L2's but a flat fee for L3's. If anything, this is backwards. I can only speak for my area but L2's outnumber L3's greater than 100 to one. (actually its "infinity to one" since I don't have ANY Blink fast chargers in my area) Now Ecotality's explanation for charging by time was to prevent ICE'ing by EVs. IOW, time plugged in after the charge has been completed. I can agree with that, but then common sense seems to fall away or maybe I am missing something? Does it make sense to charge by time to prevent camping for locations that number in the hundreds verses a flat fee which encourages camping for stations that can be counted on one hand?
A glaring example of wasting their resources is Capital Gateway Park on 14th and Jefferson in Olympia. Here sits 8 Blink L2's that seem to never get used. The reason is simple. They are situated away from the main area used by most state employees which makes it at least a 20 minute walk for many, IOW unplugging and moving during a break is out of the question. Granted there is a couple buildings in the area but most are 5-6 blocks away or more. During the time when they were still free, I saw a Volt plugged in nearly every day. Every once in a while, I would see a LEAF or two joining it meaning less than 50% capacity. I am willing to bet if Blink set up a "bulk rate" of sorts like? say $5 (where did I get that figure from??) which would be good for up to 9 hours or so, that every station would be full. Now, does that allow more people to charge? no, it would be limited to 8 people but would generate 40 hours of charging revenue or $40 daily for Ecotality. Now, that is not the best long term solution but it would be more than I expect they are making now. Now is this fair for people who might have appointments with the State and need a few hours of charge to get back home afterwards? Well no, but there are several chargers scattered in 1-3 plug configurations all around the downtown Olympia and Capital area which might prove a better fit. Thursday afternoon, I did a drive by of more than a dozen Blinks in the area. I only saw 3 in use. (only one was actually charging...)
All this brings up the real challenge that we will need to address and that is how to address every charging need and then determine locations and types of chargers. So then, what are the needs?
The "A's"
Obviously we have the commuter and they fall loosely into two categories; short distance and long distance. By short distance, I mean ones who can comfortably make it to work on a charge but might need a boost to make it home in bad weather or for errands on the way home. This group would be looking at getting a charge nearly every day but could actually do without it but it would be a bit of an inconvenience.
The "B's"
These are the road warriors whose commute is at or beyond the new LEAF range which means they need something enroute within a few years or less to make it. They almost always "have" to charge away from home every day.
The "C's"
They have a very short commute easily making it on an 80% charge and will be fine for years even with future degradation. Charge almost always at home but does make the longer trips on weekends and may need a charge occasionally on the road. This charge can be a few hours on an convenient L2 or a 15 minute boost at a QC or even plugging into 120 volts at the Sister's house for the day.
The "D's"
These are the "C's on steroids" for lack of a better term. They frequently plan trips that may require a half dozen charging stops during the weekend
Ok, so there you have it and like any list that "forces random shapes to choose between circles or squares" many of us are a combination of these. Now as an EV'er my solution has always been put a fast charger at every gas station in the country and call it good. After all, is that not where America fuels up?? We EV'ers are Americans (for the most part) right? But as we all know that line of thinking doesn't seem to penetrate much beyond the EV community so I guess we need to look at other options.
Now, the first problem we have is money. Everyone whines about costs (kinda hard to believe as we ignore the "herd of Elephants in the room AKA "Associated Oil Costs") being too much and that we EV'ers are somehow being pampered by the government dole? If anyone has a good explanation on that, I would be interested in hearing it because I feel kinda ignored. But it is a discussion between 50,000 EVers and 250 million Gassers, so it might be better to table the discussion until we can at least get better odds "up" to something doable like The Battle of Thermoplyae and although LEAFs are really starting to take off, I think its still at least a year away. And since we can put in like 10-15 L2's for every L3, then this really begs the question? how many L1's can we put in for the cost of every L2?
Another possible reason for Ecotality charging a flat $5 for a fast charge is that they realize most only charge for a short period of time and do so because they have no other choice. So by putting the screws to the "B's" they are increasing their revenue but at what cost? I think Ecotality is getting desperate and are in a panic to solidify a revenue stream and they are going about it the wrong way. What they should be looking at for a real cash cow is installing banks of 120 volt charging stations at major employers and billing a daily or monthly subscription fees. This gives about a 40 mile boost for the average "8 hour a day" employee and prevents situations like being billed $50 for a 5 hour charge like an unfortunate airline traveler who plugged into a Blink L2 (read link above...) This covers the "A's" and will also encourage a LOT more potential A's to go EV. For this I would bill 50 cents an hour, $3 a day or $55 a month. This could also be used as an employee incentive. Free charging for Employee of the Month, 50% off for car poolers. Hey! great ideas breed greater ideas! This should make the A's plenty happy! Instead of paying an extra $8,000-18,000 for the range of a RAV 4 EV they can just get the range conveniently while parked at work for a very reasonable cost.
The next thing we need to look at is where is the best place to put the L2's? Some feel that grocery stores are best for fast chargers but I have to disagree (remember you can post feedback here and I am sure that comment will bring up things to say!) and the biggest reason why is because I do not feel that fast chargers should be used for 30 minutes. In this hustle, bustle world we live in, time is important and 30 minutes at a fast charger is not in your best interests of time management So I think that fast chargers should be located in areas where the stopping time is more along the line of 10-15 minutes which means a fast food stop (50 million fast food visits daily makes for a HUGE potential market), convenience stores or a waypoint for regional travel near major roads and freeways. And make it a per minute charge with tiered pricing for longer duration charges to encourage people to just get what the need and go. Also allow dual head chargers to use one of their heads to charge intelligently! There is no reason why the queued vehicle cannot start charging when the charging vehicle charging rate drops sufficiently to allow it. All the Blinks I have seen have a 60 Kwh power available (per their screen) and the LEAF only charges at 48 kwh. Even with a very low battery, the Blink should have the enough power to switch the queued vehicle on after about 18 minutes or so. This will cover the D's and get the B's in a "B"etter mood as well!
Shopping Malls and major retailers should be putting in the L2's for no other reason than to get a marketing edge on the competition. Sears, Target, and Walmart seem to be absent in this regards as least in this area. As major players Walgreens has taken the lead in this area and with 8,077 locations nationwide we can only hope that they expand the current L2's from Semaconnect. Now a lot of you might say that Walgreens is not a good location for L2 charging and for many that is right. A occasional fast charger positioned would be nice but considering the chargers Walgreens has installed up to now have been fully funded by Walgreens itself, I can only be grateful for the generosity and consideration they have given the EV community. They have most definitely won all my drugstore needs! And L2 can work in some situations. Case in point; the last 2 times I picked up prescriptions were for my Son. The doctor's office phones them in and both times it was at the end of the day so had no other errands so I sent them to the Walgreens that had a charging station. I went there plugged in and went to pharmacy and as expected, the prescription was not ready yet. This is something that really used to bother me because I have waited anywhere from 5 to 45 minutes. Never knowing when it was ready was irritating. But in both situations, I was able to walk across the street, get some grocery shopping in (there is also several eateries available) so got some fresh air, exercise, errands done and all while keeping my stress level low knowing I was adding range to my day!
Costco is another retailer that should be getting into the charging game. My typical stops at Costco average an hour or so, sometimes longer. They could tailor the charge as free if you are a member (swipe your membership card!) and make it free if you are an executive or business member! But even with membership stores, one just does not have the occasion to be there that often so a time based fee is the only thing that makes sense so I guess Blinks Buck an Hour model is doable here and will cover the needs of all the letters above but more importantly of the C's who in their budget conscious thinking will have a day planned in the area to get the charge they need and the best part is that Costco just might be offering plugs again soon!
What this all boils down to is that charging per hour for L2's wont work when they are placed in locations that people normally park for extended periods. Unless you are in the habit of commuting by plane across town then the ideology of putting them in at airports really needs to be examined. Same for work locations. A few L2's would be nice to cover visitors and others who have the chance to move their car during a break or something but generally speaking, no... L1's providing 120 volts maybe slow but they are dirt cheap in comparison and is really all that most commuters need. Any company that wants to earn a living charging EVs will need to realize that there is no part of the EV community that can be ignored. My charging needs change on a daily basis and I am betting so do many others here. So Ecotality, lets get away from this "one fee structure fits all" ideology!
It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see conspiracy theorists claiming Ecotality's announcement is a marketing move to get more L2 revenue from the disgruntled fast chargers wanting just a 10 minute blast while shortening the lines for people who actually need the full 30 minutes.
But on the eve of the start of the flat fee, Ecotality has barely acknowledged the discussion exists but one can only hope their minimal reply is a result of very active discussions at their corporate level. Now they might want to think about their own conflicting business model. On the one hand, they charge a fee based on time for L2's but a flat fee for L3's. If anything, this is backwards. I can only speak for my area but L2's outnumber L3's greater than 100 to one. (actually its "infinity to one" since I don't have ANY Blink fast chargers in my area) Now Ecotality's explanation for charging by time was to prevent ICE'ing by EVs. IOW, time plugged in after the charge has been completed. I can agree with that, but then common sense seems to fall away or maybe I am missing something? Does it make sense to charge by time to prevent camping for locations that number in the hundreds verses a flat fee which encourages camping for stations that can be counted on one hand?
A glaring example of wasting their resources is Capital Gateway Park on 14th and Jefferson in Olympia. Here sits 8 Blink L2's that seem to never get used. The reason is simple. They are situated away from the main area used by most state employees which makes it at least a 20 minute walk for many, IOW unplugging and moving during a break is out of the question. Granted there is a couple buildings in the area but most are 5-6 blocks away or more. During the time when they were still free, I saw a Volt plugged in nearly every day. Every once in a while, I would see a LEAF or two joining it meaning less than 50% capacity. I am willing to bet if Blink set up a "bulk rate" of sorts like? say $5 (where did I get that figure from??) which would be good for up to 9 hours or so, that every station would be full. Now, does that allow more people to charge? no, it would be limited to 8 people but would generate 40 hours of charging revenue or $40 daily for Ecotality. Now, that is not the best long term solution but it would be more than I expect they are making now. Now is this fair for people who might have appointments with the State and need a few hours of charge to get back home afterwards? Well no, but there are several chargers scattered in 1-3 plug configurations all around the downtown Olympia and Capital area which might prove a better fit. Thursday afternoon, I did a drive by of more than a dozen Blinks in the area. I only saw 3 in use. (only one was actually charging...)
All this brings up the real challenge that we will need to address and that is how to address every charging need and then determine locations and types of chargers. So then, what are the needs?
The "A's"
Obviously we have the commuter and they fall loosely into two categories; short distance and long distance. By short distance, I mean ones who can comfortably make it to work on a charge but might need a boost to make it home in bad weather or for errands on the way home. This group would be looking at getting a charge nearly every day but could actually do without it but it would be a bit of an inconvenience.
The "B's"
These are the road warriors whose commute is at or beyond the new LEAF range which means they need something enroute within a few years or less to make it. They almost always "have" to charge away from home every day.
The "C's"
They have a very short commute easily making it on an 80% charge and will be fine for years even with future degradation. Charge almost always at home but does make the longer trips on weekends and may need a charge occasionally on the road. This charge can be a few hours on an convenient L2 or a 15 minute boost at a QC or even plugging into 120 volts at the Sister's house for the day.
The "D's"
These are the "C's on steroids" for lack of a better term. They frequently plan trips that may require a half dozen charging stops during the weekend
Ok, so there you have it and like any list that "forces random shapes to choose between circles or squares" many of us are a combination of these. Now as an EV'er my solution has always been put a fast charger at every gas station in the country and call it good. After all, is that not where America fuels up?? We EV'ers are Americans (for the most part) right? But as we all know that line of thinking doesn't seem to penetrate much beyond the EV community so I guess we need to look at other options.
Now, the first problem we have is money. Everyone whines about costs (kinda hard to believe as we ignore the "herd of Elephants in the room AKA "Associated Oil Costs") being too much and that we EV'ers are somehow being pampered by the government dole? If anyone has a good explanation on that, I would be interested in hearing it because I feel kinda ignored. But it is a discussion between 50,000 EVers and 250 million Gassers, so it might be better to table the discussion until we can at least get better odds "up" to something doable like The Battle of Thermoplyae and although LEAFs are really starting to take off, I think its still at least a year away. And since we can put in like 10-15 L2's for every L3, then this really begs the question? how many L1's can we put in for the cost of every L2?
Another possible reason for Ecotality charging a flat $5 for a fast charge is that they realize most only charge for a short period of time and do so because they have no other choice. So by putting the screws to the "B's" they are increasing their revenue but at what cost? I think Ecotality is getting desperate and are in a panic to solidify a revenue stream and they are going about it the wrong way. What they should be looking at for a real cash cow is installing banks of 120 volt charging stations at major employers and billing a daily or monthly subscription fees. This gives about a 40 mile boost for the average "8 hour a day" employee and prevents situations like being billed $50 for a 5 hour charge like an unfortunate airline traveler who plugged into a Blink L2 (read link above...) This covers the "A's" and will also encourage a LOT more potential A's to go EV. For this I would bill 50 cents an hour, $3 a day or $55 a month. This could also be used as an employee incentive. Free charging for Employee of the Month, 50% off for car poolers. Hey! great ideas breed greater ideas! This should make the A's plenty happy! Instead of paying an extra $8,000-18,000 for the range of a RAV 4 EV they can just get the range conveniently while parked at work for a very reasonable cost.
The next thing we need to look at is where is the best place to put the L2's? Some feel that grocery stores are best for fast chargers but I have to disagree (remember you can post feedback here and I am sure that comment will bring up things to say!) and the biggest reason why is because I do not feel that fast chargers should be used for 30 minutes. In this hustle, bustle world we live in, time is important and 30 minutes at a fast charger is not in your best interests of time management So I think that fast chargers should be located in areas where the stopping time is more along the line of 10-15 minutes which means a fast food stop (50 million fast food visits daily makes for a HUGE potential market), convenience stores or a waypoint for regional travel near major roads and freeways. And make it a per minute charge with tiered pricing for longer duration charges to encourage people to just get what the need and go. Also allow dual head chargers to use one of their heads to charge intelligently! There is no reason why the queued vehicle cannot start charging when the charging vehicle charging rate drops sufficiently to allow it. All the Blinks I have seen have a 60 Kwh power available (per their screen) and the LEAF only charges at 48 kwh. Even with a very low battery, the Blink should have the enough power to switch the queued vehicle on after about 18 minutes or so. This will cover the D's and get the B's in a "B"etter mood as well!
Shopping Malls and major retailers should be putting in the L2's for no other reason than to get a marketing edge on the competition. Sears, Target, and Walmart seem to be absent in this regards as least in this area. As major players Walgreens has taken the lead in this area and with 8,077 locations nationwide we can only hope that they expand the current L2's from Semaconnect. Now a lot of you might say that Walgreens is not a good location for L2 charging and for many that is right. A occasional fast charger positioned would be nice but considering the chargers Walgreens has installed up to now have been fully funded by Walgreens itself, I can only be grateful for the generosity and consideration they have given the EV community. They have most definitely won all my drugstore needs! And L2 can work in some situations. Case in point; the last 2 times I picked up prescriptions were for my Son. The doctor's office phones them in and both times it was at the end of the day so had no other errands so I sent them to the Walgreens that had a charging station. I went there plugged in and went to pharmacy and as expected, the prescription was not ready yet. This is something that really used to bother me because I have waited anywhere from 5 to 45 minutes. Never knowing when it was ready was irritating. But in both situations, I was able to walk across the street, get some grocery shopping in (there is also several eateries available) so got some fresh air, exercise, errands done and all while keeping my stress level low knowing I was adding range to my day!
Costco is another retailer that should be getting into the charging game. My typical stops at Costco average an hour or so, sometimes longer. They could tailor the charge as free if you are a member (swipe your membership card!) and make it free if you are an executive or business member! But even with membership stores, one just does not have the occasion to be there that often so a time based fee is the only thing that makes sense so I guess Blinks Buck an Hour model is doable here and will cover the needs of all the letters above but more importantly of the C's who in their budget conscious thinking will have a day planned in the area to get the charge they need and the best part is that Costco just might be offering plugs again soon!
What this all boils down to is that charging per hour for L2's wont work when they are placed in locations that people normally park for extended periods. Unless you are in the habit of commuting by plane across town then the ideology of putting them in at airports really needs to be examined. Same for work locations. A few L2's would be nice to cover visitors and others who have the chance to move their car during a break or something but generally speaking, no... L1's providing 120 volts maybe slow but they are dirt cheap in comparison and is really all that most commuters need. Any company that wants to earn a living charging EVs will need to realize that there is no part of the EV community that can be ignored. My charging needs change on a daily basis and I am betting so do many others here. So Ecotality, lets get away from this "one fee structure fits all" ideology!
Tuesday, June 4, 2013
Charging Data, Time Management and Flat Rate Whining; Part Two
Probably said all that I can say about Blink's flat $5 fee and how it would hurt both Blink and us. What can I say? Its not like it takes all that many words to figure out that flat rate fees work in lots of cases and fast charging is simply not one of those cases. It is really that simple. Anyway, this post will be updated frequently as I gather charge data. Below is first time (in 5 attempts) that I was able to charge until the machine stopped on its own. Using the AV station in Tumwater below. used a stopwatch with a lap function so time is minutes.seconds.hundreths. Charge is Kwh. Guess I didn't have to specify I was at an AV charger since Blink treats the charge we get like its proprietary information. It was a sunny day with temps in low 70's.
There is a reason I have advocated charging the lower 2/3rds of the pack and that has nothing to do with heat, degradation, or anything else. It is simply time management. I suffer from what is commonly known as the "I-5 curse" which states that it does not matter which direction of travel you are headed, incidents in EITHER direction will cause you to be stuck in traffic anyway. So the urge to grab a charge and go can be overwhelming at times especially since this week (my weeks start on Saturday) I have been stuck in traffic and both times I would have missed it if I had been a few minutes earlier but then again, I might just be creating drama in my head in order to motivate me to continue my rant against long charges at fast charge stations and companies who encourage such behavior by doing things like flat rate fees...
time charge Gid
zero zero 50
1.20.77 one ...
1.14.43 two ...
1.13.99 three ...
1.14.96 four 103
1.23.45 five 114
1.29.10 six 125
1.41.15 seven 137
1.45.82 eight 147
2.03.08 nine 160
2.21.60 ten 172
2.41.82 11 183
3.16.88 12 196
4.00.09 13 211
2.24.00 13.48 219
total time 28.11.12 SOC 78%.
Time to get first 52% of the charge; 9 minutes 37.83 seconds
Time to get last 48% of the charge; 18 minutes 33.29 seconds
Time to get to 65% SOC; 18 minutes 30.15 seconds
Time to charge from 65% (my recommended stopping point) to 78%; 9 minutes 40.97 seconds
The bolded times designates either 7 kwh verses 2.48 kwh. Now the slower time is still gaining you about a mile a minute in range so still "worthy" but you can see that as soon as it hits 65%, the rate really starts to drop off fast and keep in mind; I did not even get to 80%.
I did a charge at the Blink at Tahoma Market and although it was set to 80% (and it went to 80% earlier in the week) the charge stopped at 70.1%! So next time I will probably set the charge to 100% with SOC meter on to track it...
To be continued;
There is a reason I have advocated charging the lower 2/3rds of the pack and that has nothing to do with heat, degradation, or anything else. It is simply time management. I suffer from what is commonly known as the "I-5 curse" which states that it does not matter which direction of travel you are headed, incidents in EITHER direction will cause you to be stuck in traffic anyway. So the urge to grab a charge and go can be overwhelming at times especially since this week (my weeks start on Saturday) I have been stuck in traffic and both times I would have missed it if I had been a few minutes earlier but then again, I might just be creating drama in my head in order to motivate me to continue my rant against long charges at fast charge stations and companies who encourage such behavior by doing things like flat rate fees...
time charge Gid
zero zero 50
1.20.77 one ...
1.14.43 two ...
1.13.99 three ...
1.14.96 four 103
1.23.45 five 114
1.29.10 six 125
1.41.15 seven 137
1.45.82 eight 147
2.03.08 nine 160
2.21.60 ten 172
2.41.82 11 183
3.16.88 12 196
4.00.09 13 211
2.24.00 13.48 219
total time 28.11.12 SOC 78%.
Time to get first 52% of the charge; 9 minutes 37.83 seconds
Time to get last 48% of the charge; 18 minutes 33.29 seconds
Time to get to 65% SOC; 18 minutes 30.15 seconds
Time to charge from 65% (my recommended stopping point) to 78%; 9 minutes 40.97 seconds
The bolded times designates either 7 kwh verses 2.48 kwh. Now the slower time is still gaining you about a mile a minute in range so still "worthy" but you can see that as soon as it hits 65%, the rate really starts to drop off fast and keep in mind; I did not even get to 80%.
I did a charge at the Blink at Tahoma Market and although it was set to 80% (and it went to 80% earlier in the week) the charge stopped at 70.1%! So next time I will probably set the charge to 100% with SOC meter on to track it...
To be continued;
Sunday, June 2, 2013
My Encounter With A RAV 4 EV!
Thursday, I met up with Doug, a Seattle Area resident who was the proud owner of a 2012 RAV 4 EV. Doug, like many of us started years ago with a Prius, got a LEAF a few years back and decided that EVs were the way to go and added the RAV a few months ago making nearly all his transportation electric!
Now it did not take long to understand his decision to buy. His out the door cost was just over $38,000 (before the tax credit) after the $10,000 dealer cash and some other random discounts making it just a few thousand more expensive than his or my 2011 LEAF. He has a 110 mile trip he does on a regular basis and still gets home with 20-30% charge left over. He estimates his range with careful driving to be around 130-140 miles in extended mode. With range like that, even the most demanding LEAFer like Steve Marsh could drive for years before having to worry about degradation or range issues.
The RAV comes with the ability to charge up to 9.6 kwh but he was plugged into the Blink L2 at Tahoma Market receiving juice at the 6.6 kwh rate the Blink provides. While reviewing the controls and displays, I noticed it taking just under 2 minutes for each mile of range gained. I started up the car with no fanfare. No startup sound or anything with the dash coming alive as the only indication that it was on with the "ready" mode lit up. The shifter knob mounted on the center armrest area was the familiar Toyota "Prius sparkle Blue" with it direct shift to "B" mode format.
I pulled out of Tahoma Market and a glance at I-5 insured that we would be getting nowhere fast there so I turned north on Old Highway 99 knowing the speed limit would be 50 mph soon. The RAV was quiet, smooth, powerful and very solid feeling. With only 2200 miles on the odometer, it was barely broke in so one can never know what the test of time would bring but there was no hint of looseness, start of a rattle or any vibration at all in the steering. Poorly repaired asphalt was barely felt at speed and the "top heavy" feeling of many SUVs was simply not present here.
I shifted into "B" mode and got up to 45 mph then took my foot off the accelerator and received about 50% of max regen. Unlike in a Prius, "B" mode did not feel heavy or remind me of driving a car in 2nd gear. Regen was engaged gently so despite my lack of experience driving the car, a smooth ride was still easy to do. Doug then switched the car into "Sport mode" and the accent lighting on the dash turned Red and there was a noticeable change in the pedal response. Traffic did not really allow me to do much (plus Doug is a big guy and didn't want to piss him off...) but even at a low rate of acceleration, the power could be felt. I drove about 5-6 miles up the road then turned left and into a school parking lot. Here the low center of gravity was noticeable making turns effortless. During my stint selling cars for Ford, I drove a lot of different cars and even at very low speeds, body roll on SUVs can be felt. There was none of that here, very solid road feel.
We retuned to Tahoma Market after what I think was just about a 10 mile drive and I noticed we only used 9 miles on the range estimator making it pretty reliable. Speeds ranged up to 53 mph with a few stops and traffic slowdowns to the 35 mph level.
Skipping the obvious EV aspects and whatnot, I really liked the interior. Seats were a cloth with leather (or leather like?) wrap in a light gray. Hope you like the color because there is apparently no other choice here. The center display was large and bright really emphasizing how much difference an extra inch of screen real estate can do over the LEAF's 7 inch display. Add to that a small screen about two inches by four inches below the center screen that provided additional info on climate controls, etc.
With 10+ years experience and over a million examples on the road, feedback screens for driving performance is something that Toyota does a pretty good job at. Like the Prius, there is a consumption screen that shows a per minute breakdown of your efficiency, a big plus for a data driven guy like me. Toyota obviously did not want to redesign the RAV so all the gauges might be digital but still in the "round analog" looking format making it too hard to really tell what is going on at a glance. Now my unfamiliarity with the car is probably aggravating my impressions but numerical digital displays have always been better for my head, so not a plus or minus. more of a personal thing here. The "power" screen is also set to the left side and not an easy thing to watch if trying to brake efficiently so a lot more "eye splitting" between the screen and the traffic in front, but the enhanced level of regen in "B" mode will help in that instance.
NAV was "normal" in that all in-car NAV systems kinda suck. Pluses was the ability to scroll (unlike the LEAF which I HATE HATE HATE!) by simply touching the screen with your finger and dragging in the direction you wanted. Minuses is only having "top down" view. The LEAF's ability to change the angle of the view allows you a general picture of your route in the distance but zooms up on things close by making it harder to miss turns, street names, etc.
Entertainment options were awesome with Pandora (only thing I really use) built in. Saves me from running the battery down on my cellphone like I do now. (Pandora is a power hog!) Didn't try it so don't know what the speed of the network handling the request is or anything, but still nice to have one touch access without having to fumble with the phone!
The back seats were functional, nothing spectacular but they recline making it a big plus over the LEAF seats. Hard to say but the seats *might* not clean up as well as the LEAF's smooth texture microfiber. The back hatch was not extremely deep but more than enough room to haul several pieces of luggage or the monthly excursion to Costco and unlike the Prius, there is no sloping storage moving towards the back so full height is maintained. A side opening rear door is not my preference and it did seem to make the opening a bit less convenient as well but I can see the ideology behind it because of the higher position of the vehicle and a larger door, in its full open position the hatch might prove difficult to close for shorter owners.
Overall, Doug got a great deal in my opinion. 140 miles in good weather means an easy 100 miles in bad. Although the RAV is a compliance car only sold in CA, he has talked with his local Toyota dealer and they are more than willing to service the vehicle should any issue arise. Dianne of Carson Toyota has extensive experience shipping RAVs to all areas of the country so that process would be easy. I have other opinions concerning Toyota skating thru their zero emission obligation with so many out of state sales, but that is another topic...
No fast charge is a deal breaker for most EVs due to their short ranges, but the 140 mile range would still allow the RAV to cover a huge portion of my transportation need and with TMS, most of that range should be available for several years. Also I have only exceeded 140 miles in the LEAF a half dozen times or so and in all those cases, there were several 120/240 volt charging opportunities.
Now, I love my LEAF and fully intend to lease another next Jan when the current lease runs out and here is the big difference. Unless there is a major change in the 2014 LEAF, I still don't recommend buying one. The 84 mile range and future degradation is simply for me and my driving needs for me to feel comfortable with a long term commitment. I would not feel the same with the RAV. I could easily see myself buying here, plus Toyota makes it clear they prefer sales over leases. Unlike Nissan, Toyota does not credit you the entire $7500 fed tax credit on the lease price. Just another reason to buy.
Finally the price. At $38,000 it would have been a no-brainer 2 years ago when I got my LEAF but times have changed. Today a LEAF can be had for just over $30,000 so the extra cost would be an issue for me but the extra room, extra range, etc complicates the issue considerably. Take for example someone with a 50 mile commute. How long could he drive that commute in a LEAF? Well, Steve Marsh is still able to go more than 50 miles and he is just under 80,000 miles but with his degradation a 50 mile commute would have to be driven carefully. So suppose we put an 80,000 mile limit on there and with transportation costs favoring the EV by 8 cents a mile then one could save $6400 over a conventional gas vehicle before they would have to start thinking about the cost of a battery replacement. Now, in the RAV's case, it is less efficient but not overly so and it has TMS which should slow the rate of degradation down considerably. But we have no one who has a significant amount of miles piled up yet so lets just pretend the degradation rate is about the same as the LEAF. (although the degradation should be slower)
So if we go back to Steve Marsh, his latest GID readings was in the 230-232 range making a 17.5% loss. Now if the RAV lost that much its range would drop from 140 to 115.5 miles meaning that Steve's commute could no longer be done on a charge. (Steve currently must quick charge a bit in both directions to make his 64 mile one way commute but also has a charger at work) AND he would not be looking at any battery replacement costs so lets look at the next 80,000 miles and $6400 in fuel savings (that "could" be much higher) and he has lost another 17.5% and now his range goes from 115.5 miles to 95.3 miles. So now, Steve is pricing his 2nd battery pack replacement while Doug is still going strong. All of a sudden that price difference does not seem so bad?
**edit** had either a brain fart, math challenge, or "The Sun got in my eyes" so edited the part about Steve's commute which I look at is two "commutes" because his employer was nice enough to install a charger for him so he does a full charge at home at night and a full charge at work during the day.
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
Now it did not take long to understand his decision to buy. His out the door cost was just over $38,000 (before the tax credit) after the $10,000 dealer cash and some other random discounts making it just a few thousand more expensive than his or my 2011 LEAF. He has a 110 mile trip he does on a regular basis and still gets home with 20-30% charge left over. He estimates his range with careful driving to be around 130-140 miles in extended mode. With range like that, even the most demanding LEAFer like Steve Marsh could drive for years before having to worry about degradation or range issues.
The RAV comes with the ability to charge up to 9.6 kwh but he was plugged into the Blink L2 at Tahoma Market receiving juice at the 6.6 kwh rate the Blink provides. While reviewing the controls and displays, I noticed it taking just under 2 minutes for each mile of range gained. I started up the car with no fanfare. No startup sound or anything with the dash coming alive as the only indication that it was on with the "ready" mode lit up. The shifter knob mounted on the center armrest area was the familiar Toyota "Prius sparkle Blue" with it direct shift to "B" mode format.
I pulled out of Tahoma Market and a glance at I-5 insured that we would be getting nowhere fast there so I turned north on Old Highway 99 knowing the speed limit would be 50 mph soon. The RAV was quiet, smooth, powerful and very solid feeling. With only 2200 miles on the odometer, it was barely broke in so one can never know what the test of time would bring but there was no hint of looseness, start of a rattle or any vibration at all in the steering. Poorly repaired asphalt was barely felt at speed and the "top heavy" feeling of many SUVs was simply not present here.
I shifted into "B" mode and got up to 45 mph then took my foot off the accelerator and received about 50% of max regen. Unlike in a Prius, "B" mode did not feel heavy or remind me of driving a car in 2nd gear. Regen was engaged gently so despite my lack of experience driving the car, a smooth ride was still easy to do. Doug then switched the car into "Sport mode" and the accent lighting on the dash turned Red and there was a noticeable change in the pedal response. Traffic did not really allow me to do much (plus Doug is a big guy and didn't want to piss him off...) but even at a low rate of acceleration, the power could be felt. I drove about 5-6 miles up the road then turned left and into a school parking lot. Here the low center of gravity was noticeable making turns effortless. During my stint selling cars for Ford, I drove a lot of different cars and even at very low speeds, body roll on SUVs can be felt. There was none of that here, very solid road feel.
We retuned to Tahoma Market after what I think was just about a 10 mile drive and I noticed we only used 9 miles on the range estimator making it pretty reliable. Speeds ranged up to 53 mph with a few stops and traffic slowdowns to the 35 mph level.
Skipping the obvious EV aspects and whatnot, I really liked the interior. Seats were a cloth with leather (or leather like?) wrap in a light gray. Hope you like the color because there is apparently no other choice here. The center display was large and bright really emphasizing how much difference an extra inch of screen real estate can do over the LEAF's 7 inch display. Add to that a small screen about two inches by four inches below the center screen that provided additional info on climate controls, etc.
With 10+ years experience and over a million examples on the road, feedback screens for driving performance is something that Toyota does a pretty good job at. Like the Prius, there is a consumption screen that shows a per minute breakdown of your efficiency, a big plus for a data driven guy like me. Toyota obviously did not want to redesign the RAV so all the gauges might be digital but still in the "round analog" looking format making it too hard to really tell what is going on at a glance. Now my unfamiliarity with the car is probably aggravating my impressions but numerical digital displays have always been better for my head, so not a plus or minus. more of a personal thing here. The "power" screen is also set to the left side and not an easy thing to watch if trying to brake efficiently so a lot more "eye splitting" between the screen and the traffic in front, but the enhanced level of regen in "B" mode will help in that instance.
NAV was "normal" in that all in-car NAV systems kinda suck. Pluses was the ability to scroll (unlike the LEAF which I HATE HATE HATE!) by simply touching the screen with your finger and dragging in the direction you wanted. Minuses is only having "top down" view. The LEAF's ability to change the angle of the view allows you a general picture of your route in the distance but zooms up on things close by making it harder to miss turns, street names, etc.
Entertainment options were awesome with Pandora (only thing I really use) built in. Saves me from running the battery down on my cellphone like I do now. (Pandora is a power hog!) Didn't try it so don't know what the speed of the network handling the request is or anything, but still nice to have one touch access without having to fumble with the phone!
The back seats were functional, nothing spectacular but they recline making it a big plus over the LEAF seats. Hard to say but the seats *might* not clean up as well as the LEAF's smooth texture microfiber. The back hatch was not extremely deep but more than enough room to haul several pieces of luggage or the monthly excursion to Costco and unlike the Prius, there is no sloping storage moving towards the back so full height is maintained. A side opening rear door is not my preference and it did seem to make the opening a bit less convenient as well but I can see the ideology behind it because of the higher position of the vehicle and a larger door, in its full open position the hatch might prove difficult to close for shorter owners.
Overall, Doug got a great deal in my opinion. 140 miles in good weather means an easy 100 miles in bad. Although the RAV is a compliance car only sold in CA, he has talked with his local Toyota dealer and they are more than willing to service the vehicle should any issue arise. Dianne of Carson Toyota has extensive experience shipping RAVs to all areas of the country so that process would be easy. I have other opinions concerning Toyota skating thru their zero emission obligation with so many out of state sales, but that is another topic...
No fast charge is a deal breaker for most EVs due to their short ranges, but the 140 mile range would still allow the RAV to cover a huge portion of my transportation need and with TMS, most of that range should be available for several years. Also I have only exceeded 140 miles in the LEAF a half dozen times or so and in all those cases, there were several 120/240 volt charging opportunities.
Now, I love my LEAF and fully intend to lease another next Jan when the current lease runs out and here is the big difference. Unless there is a major change in the 2014 LEAF, I still don't recommend buying one. The 84 mile range and future degradation is simply for me and my driving needs for me to feel comfortable with a long term commitment. I would not feel the same with the RAV. I could easily see myself buying here, plus Toyota makes it clear they prefer sales over leases. Unlike Nissan, Toyota does not credit you the entire $7500 fed tax credit on the lease price. Just another reason to buy.
Finally the price. At $38,000 it would have been a no-brainer 2 years ago when I got my LEAF but times have changed. Today a LEAF can be had for just over $30,000 so the extra cost would be an issue for me but the extra room, extra range, etc complicates the issue considerably. Take for example someone with a 50 mile commute. How long could he drive that commute in a LEAF? Well, Steve Marsh is still able to go more than 50 miles and he is just under 80,000 miles but with his degradation a 50 mile commute would have to be driven carefully. So suppose we put an 80,000 mile limit on there and with transportation costs favoring the EV by 8 cents a mile then one could save $6400 over a conventional gas vehicle before they would have to start thinking about the cost of a battery replacement. Now, in the RAV's case, it is less efficient but not overly so and it has TMS which should slow the rate of degradation down considerably. But we have no one who has a significant amount of miles piled up yet so lets just pretend the degradation rate is about the same as the LEAF. (although the degradation should be slower)
So if we go back to Steve Marsh, his latest GID readings was in the 230-232 range making a 17.5% loss. Now if the RAV lost that much its range would drop from 140 to 115.5 miles meaning that Steve's commute could no longer be done on a charge. (Steve currently must quick charge a bit in both directions to make his 64 mile one way commute but also has a charger at work) AND he would not be looking at any battery replacement costs so lets look at the next 80,000 miles and $6400 in fuel savings (that "could" be much higher) and he has lost another 17.5% and now his range goes from 115.5 miles to 95.3 miles. So now, Steve is pricing his 2nd battery pack replacement while Doug is still going strong. All of a sudden that price difference does not seem so bad?
**edit** had either a brain fart, math challenge, or "The Sun got in my eyes" so edited the part about Steve's commute which I look at is two "commutes" because his employer was nice enough to install a charger for him so he does a full charge at home at night and a full charge at work during the day.
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
Thursday, May 30, 2013
Blink Fast Charge Rates
Guessing most of you are not surprised that this would be the next topic of conversation. So lets start with news that is not news any more since the announcement spread like wildfire thru-out the EV community. Ecotality, makers of Blink DC Fast charge stations announced a fee structure of $5 for members, $8 for guests. Yes, the dreaded flat fee. That means whether you are charging for 5 minutes or 55 minutes, you will pay the same.
As we are all well aware; the furor over this announcement has been quick, passionate and very one-sided. Nearly all of us agree that $5 is very reasonable and not charging a per minute rate is a mistake. Portland Oregon's Electric Avenue Fast charge stations usage patterns show the average charge time to be just over 15 minutes with nearly half of the charging session at 10 minutes or less. This allows many more people a shot at the very limited number of charging slots. IOW, OR EV'rs have learned the concept of sharing and working together. "Get what you need, no more and move on!"
Yesterday, due to work needs. I had exhausted most of my range and errands used up the rest. Due to time constraints, charging at home was not an option. So, I picked up my Son from school to take him to his appointment but swung by the Tumwater DCFC (AV station) to get a charge. Pulled in with about 4 miles of range. I started my charge and Steve Marsh pulls in. He is also on empty and in a hurry but he got lucky in that he was behind me. You see, my average charge time is 10-12 minutes and mostly because of work constraints where I simply don't have the time to charge to 80%. I charged as long as I could and got my 6.335 Kwh in 9 minutes and rushed off to my appointment. Steve who works in Taylor Town which is 15 miles down the road and has a charger at work to use would only be charging for less than 10 minutes as well. So there you have it, two happy customers in less time than a single customer doing a 30 minute charge.
Another thing to consider is new users. More than a few times I have shown new LEAFers that they did not have to wait until the charger stopped on their own. Once I ran into a lady who was furiously texting away on her phone when I pulled up. we talked a bit and she revealed she was concerned over making an appointment on time and whether her charge would be finished in time. well, I found out range was not an issue and walked over and hit the "stop" button and she was GRATEFUL! A per minute fee structure intuitively gives them this knowledge.
So what is the reasoning behind Ecotality's decision here? Is it get the $5 no matter what? They have to know that most of us don't charge for 30 minutes. Now in parts of California, the peak electricity rates are so high, they would be barely breaking even if the LEAFer was low and looking to get a full charge. Which brings up another point; Is Ecotality charging the same rates nationwide? How is that making sense?
The prime goal of any business is an economic model that makes sense. Being able to pencil out the usage of their products and predicting revenue. In the case of charging stations; the revenue options are quite clear. You cant increase revenue unless you change your fee structure or put more chargers into the ground. Ecotality being buoyed by federal dollars has had the luxury of being able to experiment a bit with their business model but the money is running out. They have done a lot for the EV community but some of their actions has simply not been received well. I hesitate to say this (since I did not get one anyway...) but I have to think that I would have rather seen more effort put into getting more chargers put into the ground instead of handing out free home charging stations. (now if I had gotten one, I might have thought differently but since I charge at home about 89% of the time using a system I paid for, I actually don't...)
After all, Ecotality's role was to bolster EV adoption and they chose to do so by spending most of their fed dollars handing out free chargers. This resulted in die hard early EV adopters being happy but did little to encourage fence-sitters to jump in. Home chargers simply do not make a public impact. Public chargers do. The huge amount of L2's installed around the region did make an impact to the general public because people saw them. But Ecotality started charging for that access way too early in the game. The pattern of usage for the L2's had not been well established. Partly due to the slowness of the charge (we all did 3.3 kw back then) and partly due to questionable locations. But all that is a done deal. Not the best way to go but its history. We need to move on but looks like the path is not turning into the right direction. Ecotality will alienate some of their clientele which cant be a good thing because many have already had several issues with reliability, mismanagement, slow charger rollouts, etc.
My charging fee structure will make Ecotality more money and is much less likely to create queuing issues at the stations itself. What about a two tiered rate based on either time or charge/time combined?
1) Charge a one dollar connection fee. 15 cents a minute for the first 20 minutes, then 20 cents a minute afterwards. This adds up to $6 for the first 30 minutes AND matches AV's rate of $2.50 (also a per charge session that although a GREAT deal is still wrong!) if charging for 10 minutes.
2) charge by the Kwh. Once again, a one dollar connection fee. Then 25 cents (this SHOULD be adjusted to local market rates. I am using this as the cheapest rate for people paying under 10 cents per kwh at home) per kwh plus 20 cents a minute after 20 minutes.
Both scenarios above are very reasonable for the drivers, provides greater revenue potential for Ecotality and will build brownie point for them which the really really need.
One final note; When you get down to it, $5 for a charge is very reasonable and if its an emergency, its a down right bargain. But the key thing to remember is that if Ecotality had come out and built the 22 fast charge stations as promised and they were rock solid reliable, then I really think the furor over this fee structure would have been localized among a few die-hards because Ecotality would have built up a strong base of very loyal and grateful customers. But that did not happen. Like any relationship gone bad, it has to be built back up. Ecotality has not done that and their recent press release blaming everyone but themselves over the slow roll out did not help matters either.
Ecotality; if you are listening take the advice of a good marriage counselor. There are a lot of people who won the battle that are now living alone...
**EDIT** If you think the per session charge of $5 is not the way to go, express your opinion here
http://blinkshare.blinknetwork.com/blink/topics/new_5_fee_announced_for_blink_level_3_dcqc_starting_in_june_what_is_blink_thinking#add_product_label
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
As we are all well aware; the furor over this announcement has been quick, passionate and very one-sided. Nearly all of us agree that $5 is very reasonable and not charging a per minute rate is a mistake. Portland Oregon's Electric Avenue Fast charge stations usage patterns show the average charge time to be just over 15 minutes with nearly half of the charging session at 10 minutes or less. This allows many more people a shot at the very limited number of charging slots. IOW, OR EV'rs have learned the concept of sharing and working together. "Get what you need, no more and move on!"
Yesterday, due to work needs. I had exhausted most of my range and errands used up the rest. Due to time constraints, charging at home was not an option. So, I picked up my Son from school to take him to his appointment but swung by the Tumwater DCFC (AV station) to get a charge. Pulled in with about 4 miles of range. I started my charge and Steve Marsh pulls in. He is also on empty and in a hurry but he got lucky in that he was behind me. You see, my average charge time is 10-12 minutes and mostly because of work constraints where I simply don't have the time to charge to 80%. I charged as long as I could and got my 6.335 Kwh in 9 minutes and rushed off to my appointment. Steve who works in Taylor Town which is 15 miles down the road and has a charger at work to use would only be charging for less than 10 minutes as well. So there you have it, two happy customers in less time than a single customer doing a 30 minute charge.
Another thing to consider is new users. More than a few times I have shown new LEAFers that they did not have to wait until the charger stopped on their own. Once I ran into a lady who was furiously texting away on her phone when I pulled up. we talked a bit and she revealed she was concerned over making an appointment on time and whether her charge would be finished in time. well, I found out range was not an issue and walked over and hit the "stop" button and she was GRATEFUL! A per minute fee structure intuitively gives them this knowledge.
So what is the reasoning behind Ecotality's decision here? Is it get the $5 no matter what? They have to know that most of us don't charge for 30 minutes. Now in parts of California, the peak electricity rates are so high, they would be barely breaking even if the LEAFer was low and looking to get a full charge. Which brings up another point; Is Ecotality charging the same rates nationwide? How is that making sense?
The prime goal of any business is an economic model that makes sense. Being able to pencil out the usage of their products and predicting revenue. In the case of charging stations; the revenue options are quite clear. You cant increase revenue unless you change your fee structure or put more chargers into the ground. Ecotality being buoyed by federal dollars has had the luxury of being able to experiment a bit with their business model but the money is running out. They have done a lot for the EV community but some of their actions has simply not been received well. I hesitate to say this (since I did not get one anyway...) but I have to think that I would have rather seen more effort put into getting more chargers put into the ground instead of handing out free home charging stations. (now if I had gotten one, I might have thought differently but since I charge at home about 89% of the time using a system I paid for, I actually don't...)
After all, Ecotality's role was to bolster EV adoption and they chose to do so by spending most of their fed dollars handing out free chargers. This resulted in die hard early EV adopters being happy but did little to encourage fence-sitters to jump in. Home chargers simply do not make a public impact. Public chargers do. The huge amount of L2's installed around the region did make an impact to the general public because people saw them. But Ecotality started charging for that access way too early in the game. The pattern of usage for the L2's had not been well established. Partly due to the slowness of the charge (we all did 3.3 kw back then) and partly due to questionable locations. But all that is a done deal. Not the best way to go but its history. We need to move on but looks like the path is not turning into the right direction. Ecotality will alienate some of their clientele which cant be a good thing because many have already had several issues with reliability, mismanagement, slow charger rollouts, etc.
My charging fee structure will make Ecotality more money and is much less likely to create queuing issues at the stations itself. What about a two tiered rate based on either time or charge/time combined?
1) Charge a one dollar connection fee. 15 cents a minute for the first 20 minutes, then 20 cents a minute afterwards. This adds up to $6 for the first 30 minutes AND matches AV's rate of $2.50 (also a per charge session that although a GREAT deal is still wrong!) if charging for 10 minutes.
2) charge by the Kwh. Once again, a one dollar connection fee. Then 25 cents (this SHOULD be adjusted to local market rates. I am using this as the cheapest rate for people paying under 10 cents per kwh at home) per kwh plus 20 cents a minute after 20 minutes.
Both scenarios above are very reasonable for the drivers, provides greater revenue potential for Ecotality and will build brownie point for them which the really really need.
One final note; When you get down to it, $5 for a charge is very reasonable and if its an emergency, its a down right bargain. But the key thing to remember is that if Ecotality had come out and built the 22 fast charge stations as promised and they were rock solid reliable, then I really think the furor over this fee structure would have been localized among a few die-hards because Ecotality would have built up a strong base of very loyal and grateful customers. But that did not happen. Like any relationship gone bad, it has to be built back up. Ecotality has not done that and their recent press release blaming everyone but themselves over the slow roll out did not help matters either.
Ecotality; if you are listening take the advice of a good marriage counselor. There are a lot of people who won the battle that are now living alone...
**EDIT** If you think the per session charge of $5 is not the way to go, express your opinion here
http://blinkshare.blinknetwork.com/blink/topics/new_5_fee_announced_for_blink_level_3_dcqc_starting_in_june_what_is_blink_thinking#add_product_label
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
Saturday, May 25, 2013
EV Options For the Future
Tesla has paid off their DOE loan early and their stock is just jumping off the page. Elon Musk who is known for making some pretty brash statements about what his companies can do and so far, he has pretty much accomplished it.
He also stated that Tesla will have a 200+ mile range family car for $30,000 within a few years to address mainstream needs. But one thing he has struggled with is meeting his timetable and EVERY manufacturer has struggled with that as well and there are some questions as to how his calculator will come up with that $30,000 figure. Either way, I think investor confidence is a sure sign that Musk's statements have been re-categorized from "delusional" to "prescient" which has no doubt, ratcheted up the pressure for the much slower legacy car companies to get products out to compete.
And we are not helping. Unlike normal cars, EV'ers are much more hungrier for details and we also collectively seem to have a limited amount of patience for waiting. This seems to have worked against us a tiny bit. When statements do come out, we dissect every word searching for a the "hidden agenda" like its some sort of puzzle or scavenger hunt we are playing. When the "actions don't match the words" we EV'ers tend to react like 5-year olds who has to clean their room before they can go out and play. IOW, not good. This might lead to companies being much more guarded about statements and attempting to get more of their ducks in a row before saying anything which means no incremental informational tidbits to digest.
So, as we wait for Tesla, Nissan and Ecotality to make good on their word (some within 4 weeks...) concerning future developments in the EV World, it might be time to make some more predictions.
Nissan has made the most changes in the 3 model years of the LEAF but its been on the road the longest and lets face it. Just about all the changes fall into the "that is how it should have been done in the first place" category. Now Nissan knows that there are several things that needs to be addressed in order for EVs to be successful and the 3 key issues are price, range and public charging.
Because of slow initial rollout of effective public charging, Nissan has given a boost with their announcement to put in 500-600 fast chargers at dealerships thru out the country. Hopefully this will include chargers at other locations to allow a better chance at 24 hour access.
Nissan has also cut the price by introducing an entry level "S" model so now comes the range. I think the price cutting is only the beginning of the price reductions we will see and I guess the only real question is when and where do the range increases come in.
First off, I think the price reductions will continue as long as a few key metrics are reached.
1) Nissan completes its ramp up in Smyrna. Although Nissan has not said a word about it, it would appear the line is still getting up to speed. Reports of shortages of the LEAF are popping up all over the country and I don't think its unexpected demand more so than just not being able to get enough out right away due to a longer than anticipated ramp up and that is to be expected. It is a new product for Tennessee and one that will need to undergo many continuous changes for the near future.
2) The battery plant reaches its goals on production and quality. The battery building process takes a considerable amount of time and the ultimate results will not be known until the batches are completed. Just like any process that requires the level of exactness and consistency, even minute changes in the process can create drastic (and usually detrimental) changes in the finished product. It will take time to identify those issues and resolve them and this could be where the current bottleneck is located.
3) Sales continue to accelerate. Each EV on the road means direct exposure to dozens more people. The LEAF has had one of its 2 best sales months ever but I feel that they are still less than half of where they need to be to take the next step and that next step is another round of price cuts along with battery pack options for 2014. Sales of 4,000-5,000 a month should be the incentive Nissan needs to accelerate the introduction of the larger pack.
Now, there has been a lot of discussion about when the next pack innovation will arrive and what it will do to pricing. Its my opinion that Nissan needs to keep the pricing where its at now at the top end AFTER adding the extra range options for those who need it. The other question is how much more can the LEAF take as far as pack size. Introducing pack options now would limit the size of the pack but one that offers a real 100 mile freeway range is what Nissan really needs to make happen and waiting for battery innovations is going to be a mistake. So look for a pack no bigger than 30-32 Kwh hours which should give the LEAF a range of 105-110 miles. Do that as an option for 2014 at a few thousand bucks and Nissan will be flying high!
**edit**
Murphy's Law says as soon as I post something, I will hear about something that needs to be added here and less than 2 hours after I posted, sure enough. news from Kia on their first EV and it does seem to fit the bill for range boasting a 200 Km range which hoping that means a real 110ish mile freeway range (200 km = 125 miles) with a starting price of just over $35,000 that is probably going to be a bit more than I think is best (probably near $40,000 for the options most would want) with no mention of QC options and until we can determine what the true real world range is, we just have to take a wait and see attitude but still the options are really starting to pop and even at $40,000 before incentives, if the Kia Soul EV gets a real 125 miles of range, it will find a market
http://
He also stated that Tesla will have a 200+ mile range family car for $30,000 within a few years to address mainstream needs. But one thing he has struggled with is meeting his timetable and EVERY manufacturer has struggled with that as well and there are some questions as to how his calculator will come up with that $30,000 figure. Either way, I think investor confidence is a sure sign that Musk's statements have been re-categorized from "delusional" to "prescient" which has no doubt, ratcheted up the pressure for the much slower legacy car companies to get products out to compete.
And we are not helping. Unlike normal cars, EV'ers are much more hungrier for details and we also collectively seem to have a limited amount of patience for waiting. This seems to have worked against us a tiny bit. When statements do come out, we dissect every word searching for a the "hidden agenda" like its some sort of puzzle or scavenger hunt we are playing. When the "actions don't match the words" we EV'ers tend to react like 5-year olds who has to clean their room before they can go out and play. IOW, not good. This might lead to companies being much more guarded about statements and attempting to get more of their ducks in a row before saying anything which means no incremental informational tidbits to digest.
So, as we wait for Tesla, Nissan and Ecotality to make good on their word (some within 4 weeks...) concerning future developments in the EV World, it might be time to make some more predictions.
Nissan has made the most changes in the 3 model years of the LEAF but its been on the road the longest and lets face it. Just about all the changes fall into the "that is how it should have been done in the first place" category. Now Nissan knows that there are several things that needs to be addressed in order for EVs to be successful and the 3 key issues are price, range and public charging.
Because of slow initial rollout of effective public charging, Nissan has given a boost with their announcement to put in 500-600 fast chargers at dealerships thru out the country. Hopefully this will include chargers at other locations to allow a better chance at 24 hour access.
Nissan has also cut the price by introducing an entry level "S" model so now comes the range. I think the price cutting is only the beginning of the price reductions we will see and I guess the only real question is when and where do the range increases come in.
First off, I think the price reductions will continue as long as a few key metrics are reached.
1) Nissan completes its ramp up in Smyrna. Although Nissan has not said a word about it, it would appear the line is still getting up to speed. Reports of shortages of the LEAF are popping up all over the country and I don't think its unexpected demand more so than just not being able to get enough out right away due to a longer than anticipated ramp up and that is to be expected. It is a new product for Tennessee and one that will need to undergo many continuous changes for the near future.
2) The battery plant reaches its goals on production and quality. The battery building process takes a considerable amount of time and the ultimate results will not be known until the batches are completed. Just like any process that requires the level of exactness and consistency, even minute changes in the process can create drastic (and usually detrimental) changes in the finished product. It will take time to identify those issues and resolve them and this could be where the current bottleneck is located.
3) Sales continue to accelerate. Each EV on the road means direct exposure to dozens more people. The LEAF has had one of its 2 best sales months ever but I feel that they are still less than half of where they need to be to take the next step and that next step is another round of price cuts along with battery pack options for 2014. Sales of 4,000-5,000 a month should be the incentive Nissan needs to accelerate the introduction of the larger pack.
Now, there has been a lot of discussion about when the next pack innovation will arrive and what it will do to pricing. Its my opinion that Nissan needs to keep the pricing where its at now at the top end AFTER adding the extra range options for those who need it. The other question is how much more can the LEAF take as far as pack size. Introducing pack options now would limit the size of the pack but one that offers a real 100 mile freeway range is what Nissan really needs to make happen and waiting for battery innovations is going to be a mistake. So look for a pack no bigger than 30-32 Kwh hours which should give the LEAF a range of 105-110 miles. Do that as an option for 2014 at a few thousand bucks and Nissan will be flying high!
**edit**
Murphy's Law says as soon as I post something, I will hear about something that needs to be added here and less than 2 hours after I posted, sure enough. news from Kia on their first EV and it does seem to fit the bill for range boasting a 200 Km range which hoping that means a real 110ish mile freeway range (200 km = 125 miles) with a starting price of just over $35,000 that is probably going to be a bit more than I think is best (probably near $40,000 for the options most would want) with no mention of QC options and until we can determine what the true real world range is, we just have to take a wait and see attitude but still the options are really starting to pop and even at $40,000 before incentives, if the Kia Soul EV gets a real 125 miles of range, it will find a market
http://Saturday, May 18, 2013
Not With My Charger!
What has long been expected is now officially a fact released by Nissan that LEAF sales in both Portland, OR and Seattle, WA areas is leading all Nissan model sales for both March and April. Bellevue, WA's (across the lake from Seattle) Eastside Nissan claims more sales than any other Nissan dealer in the country and boasts a 25 LEAF loaner fleet to boot.
But the huge increase in LEAFs on the streets has not happened without a significant amount of growing pains. The quick charge network had been slow getting off the ground and the ones that are out there are just now getting to the point where they are becoming semi-reliable. Nissan has recognized this and announced they would put in several hundred across the country and this has resulted in a lot of confusion for new LEAF drivers.
There is little doubt that LEAF salesman are using this information as a selling tool but access to chargers has not been as rosy Nissan had intended or as we had anticipated. Already several reports of LEAFers being turned away from a QC at a dealer because they had gotten their LEAF from a competitor. One Seattle area resident was 8½ months pregnant and Eastside Nissan of Bellevue still turned them away. To be fair, Eastside Nissan does have "some" valid reasons for their policies. With a 25 car LEAF loaner fleet their QC that is pretty much being used all the time to keep them on the road. Since they put in the QC at their own expense they should have the right to do as they please with that station AND they are installing a Blink that is actually outside their compound that will be intended for public use only and that is supposed to be as unrestricted as you can get when Blink is involved. But I think Eastside Nissan may have screwed themselves on this one. Car dealerships spend tens of thousands of dollars building community relationships and this would have been a small thing to do in what anyone would recognize as a special circumstance. The special circumstance would not have opened a floodgate of unwelcome requests.
There have also been several reports in CA over issues with dealers. Some are allowing anyone to charge, others are not so very much a confusing time for us.
Another thing that is also starting to rear its ugly head is jealousy for lack of a better term. A handful of EV'ers are getting upset that many of the chargers are being taken up by plug ins like the Chevy Volt or the PiP (Plug in Prius) Many have expressed that they feel that a Volt that is charging should be unplugged if the LEAF needs the charge and is creating a lot of bad blood.
Since all this is new, there is not a lot of "charging etiquette" to fall back on here. But its really common sense that "first come, first served" should be rule #1 so an actively charging car has just as much right to be there as any other vehicle. Just because a Volt could use gas to get to where they are going is not really the point here. The Volt was purchased to drive electric, PERIOD. The Volt has a shorter range which means is has to be plugged in more often so what is the problem? Some blame free charging but whether the person is paying for the juice or not does not change the fact that he got there first so he should be able to get his charge.
Now all of this changes dramatically if the vehicle is not actively charging. WA amongst other states are enacting fines for people who choose to park at a charging station but not charge and that is only fair. The company that paid to install the charger is expecting people to charge and pay and to park there and not charge is blocking that company's chance to earn a living. Just because a lot of fast chargers are currently free does not mean that we should start practicing good habits right away.
Finally the question of 80% verses 100% at a fast charger. Due to time constraints, my average charge time is less than 20 minutes but other EV'ers are staying longer and sometimes, MUCH longer.
The fast chargers are really only fast up to about 60-65% SOC. The speed of charging starts out fast but drops off rather quickly after you get past the halfway point. So the best practice would be to get the charge you need to get to your destination (or the next charging station) and go. This reduces the time for anyone waiting to use the charger. Or just get the 80% charge and move on. Charging to 100% from 80% can almost double the time. But the number of people charging to 100% has increased as quickly as LEAF sales over the past 2 months. I think part of it is due to lack of education for new LEAFers and their still existing range anxiety. This will be alleviated over time but maybe an informational flyer needs to be distributed to new LEAFers?
All in all, we EV'ers need to understand that the public charging support has a long way to go to become even borderline acceptable. So when charging, keep a few things in mind.
1) Don't charge unless you need it. Don't assume that because the charger is not being used when you get there that its ok. You never know who could show up 5 minutes later.
2) Don't unplug any actively charging car for ANY REASON.
3) If you are charging, make sure you are able to move your car when its done charging. Don't plug it in in the morning knowing that you will be fully charged in 3 hours and you wont be able to get out there for 8 hours. If that is the case, wait till lunch time, hope that other EV'ers are following basic etiquette and plug in then.
4) Have a way for your car to notify you when your charge is complete so you can be reminded of when you need to move your car.
5) Leave contact info or basic instructions for charging in the car so others can see it. This is especially vital if you choose to ignore rule #1 or if you do not have a time crunch. One program that uses a 1-800 # and an access code (this way you don't have to display your personal #) is the type of program that would work very well. check it out and support a fellow EV'er too!
http://mobilesquared.com/chargesticker/
All in all, if the various private and governmental agencies would have been more organized and proactive about getting the proper legislation on the books, the public charging experience could have gone much smoother but it didn't. So lets not take out our frustrations on our fellow EV'ers (even if they are only "half-stepping" it with a Volt) because we already have too many strikes against us. Working together wont solve all the issues before us by any stretch of the imagination but fighting amongst ourselves will only make it worse.
**EDIT**
I have been advised that the pregnant lady story does have two sides to it (as always). Apparently when she arrived, the charger was already being used and there were two cars waiting to charge. She was offered the L2 to charge with and was in a time crunch and declined. They also advised her of a QC just down the road and she declined?? apparently thinking there was a charge associated with using it (although often threatened, there is still not a QC in the state that is billing as of today...)
As usual, I suspect the real truth to the story probably lies somewhere in the middle.
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
But the huge increase in LEAFs on the streets has not happened without a significant amount of growing pains. The quick charge network had been slow getting off the ground and the ones that are out there are just now getting to the point where they are becoming semi-reliable. Nissan has recognized this and announced they would put in several hundred across the country and this has resulted in a lot of confusion for new LEAF drivers.
There is little doubt that LEAF salesman are using this information as a selling tool but access to chargers has not been as rosy Nissan had intended or as we had anticipated. Already several reports of LEAFers being turned away from a QC at a dealer because they had gotten their LEAF from a competitor. One Seattle area resident was 8½ months pregnant and Eastside Nissan of Bellevue still turned them away. To be fair, Eastside Nissan does have "some" valid reasons for their policies. With a 25 car LEAF loaner fleet their QC that is pretty much being used all the time to keep them on the road. Since they put in the QC at their own expense they should have the right to do as they please with that station AND they are installing a Blink that is actually outside their compound that will be intended for public use only and that is supposed to be as unrestricted as you can get when Blink is involved. But I think Eastside Nissan may have screwed themselves on this one. Car dealerships spend tens of thousands of dollars building community relationships and this would have been a small thing to do in what anyone would recognize as a special circumstance. The special circumstance would not have opened a floodgate of unwelcome requests.
There have also been several reports in CA over issues with dealers. Some are allowing anyone to charge, others are not so very much a confusing time for us.
Another thing that is also starting to rear its ugly head is jealousy for lack of a better term. A handful of EV'ers are getting upset that many of the chargers are being taken up by plug ins like the Chevy Volt or the PiP (Plug in Prius) Many have expressed that they feel that a Volt that is charging should be unplugged if the LEAF needs the charge and is creating a lot of bad blood.
Since all this is new, there is not a lot of "charging etiquette" to fall back on here. But its really common sense that "first come, first served" should be rule #1 so an actively charging car has just as much right to be there as any other vehicle. Just because a Volt could use gas to get to where they are going is not really the point here. The Volt was purchased to drive electric, PERIOD. The Volt has a shorter range which means is has to be plugged in more often so what is the problem? Some blame free charging but whether the person is paying for the juice or not does not change the fact that he got there first so he should be able to get his charge.
Now all of this changes dramatically if the vehicle is not actively charging. WA amongst other states are enacting fines for people who choose to park at a charging station but not charge and that is only fair. The company that paid to install the charger is expecting people to charge and pay and to park there and not charge is blocking that company's chance to earn a living. Just because a lot of fast chargers are currently free does not mean that we should start practicing good habits right away.
Finally the question of 80% verses 100% at a fast charger. Due to time constraints, my average charge time is less than 20 minutes but other EV'ers are staying longer and sometimes, MUCH longer.
The fast chargers are really only fast up to about 60-65% SOC. The speed of charging starts out fast but drops off rather quickly after you get past the halfway point. So the best practice would be to get the charge you need to get to your destination (or the next charging station) and go. This reduces the time for anyone waiting to use the charger. Or just get the 80% charge and move on. Charging to 100% from 80% can almost double the time. But the number of people charging to 100% has increased as quickly as LEAF sales over the past 2 months. I think part of it is due to lack of education for new LEAFers and their still existing range anxiety. This will be alleviated over time but maybe an informational flyer needs to be distributed to new LEAFers?
All in all, we EV'ers need to understand that the public charging support has a long way to go to become even borderline acceptable. So when charging, keep a few things in mind.
1) Don't charge unless you need it. Don't assume that because the charger is not being used when you get there that its ok. You never know who could show up 5 minutes later.
2) Don't unplug any actively charging car for ANY REASON.
3) If you are charging, make sure you are able to move your car when its done charging. Don't plug it in in the morning knowing that you will be fully charged in 3 hours and you wont be able to get out there for 8 hours. If that is the case, wait till lunch time, hope that other EV'ers are following basic etiquette and plug in then.
4) Have a way for your car to notify you when your charge is complete so you can be reminded of when you need to move your car.
5) Leave contact info or basic instructions for charging in the car so others can see it. This is especially vital if you choose to ignore rule #1 or if you do not have a time crunch. One program that uses a 1-800 # and an access code (this way you don't have to display your personal #) is the type of program that would work very well. check it out and support a fellow EV'er too!
http://mobilesquared.com/chargesticker/
All in all, if the various private and governmental agencies would have been more organized and proactive about getting the proper legislation on the books, the public charging experience could have gone much smoother but it didn't. So lets not take out our frustrations on our fellow EV'ers (even if they are only "half-stepping" it with a Volt) because we already have too many strikes against us. Working together wont solve all the issues before us by any stretch of the imagination but fighting amongst ourselves will only make it worse.
**EDIT**
I have been advised that the pregnant lady story does have two sides to it (as always). Apparently when she arrived, the charger was already being used and there were two cars waiting to charge. She was offered the L2 to charge with and was in a time crunch and declined. They also advised her of a QC just down the road and she declined?? apparently thinking there was a charge associated with using it (although often threatened, there is still not a QC in the state that is billing as of today...)
As usual, I suspect the real truth to the story probably lies somewhere in the middle.
****Public Service Alert****
Help us help you! Plug in America has a survey to measure LEAF battery degradation. It takes only a few minutes and will help the EV Brainiacs get the data they need so they can tell us what we can expect down the line
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/survey.php
Sunday, May 12, 2013
Why I Have To Lease
Getting my LEAF was a long involved process, the decision to get it was not. In fact, that was the easiest part of all. Back in early 2010, I had just about been fed up with my ZENN's lead acid battery system. They were a headache to maintain, too vulnerable to deep discharges and the total lack of a ZENN BMS just made it worse. I had pretty much decided to do Lithium. Now, this was not a cheap project and at $9,000 +, would nearly double my investment into driving electric, but I saw very few choices in the near horizon.
Then Nissan announced the LEAF. I spent all of about 2 hours reading up on everything I could find online and then decided this was the car for me. I immediately shelved my Li plans (I was lucky in that if not for the shakiness of Chinese Cells and my apprehension in taking the plunge, I probably would have already done it!) and dumped in a set of deep cycle marine batteries with hopes that I could baby them long enough for my LEAF to arrive. April 20, 2010 I reserved my place in line for the LEAF!
Now, when considering the LEAF, I was working in town so my commute was insignificant. less than 12 miles roundtrip. I determined thru Google Maps that my most ambitious errand day would only be 70 miles but also at the time I was working 4-10 hour shifts and had 3 week days off so the errands could be spread out making it no more than 40 miles in a day; very manageable!
So decided on a purchase. I had to manipulate various stock options I had to insure my tax liability would be at least the $7500 the feds were offering and that was done quite easily. All this was based on a Dec 2010 delivery date that I received after my RAQ (request a quote) on August 31, 2010.
But 2010 came and went and still no LEAF. I ended up getting my LEAF Jan 18, 2011 in the very first batch of 3 delivered to WA State (there was actually 5 but the other 2 were earmarked for out of state owners) . So I became first to take a "normal" delivery of a LEAF in the state by a day over Patrick and Sam who got theirs the next day.
But the delay put in into a bit of a quandary. I no longer had the option to manipulate my tax liability again to get the full $7500. So I decided to lease and investigate a buyout later. (Besides, due to lack of "proper" income, I was unable to get a decent loan rate from them despite the offer to put 50% down!) So, I leased and to reduce my buyout amount, I put down $10,000 reducing my monthly payments (and rental fees!) to $162 a month.
It wasn't until a year after delivery that I realized that buying my LEAF would have been a mistake. I live at the very southern tip of Puget Sound which makes my driving distance needs much greater than one more centrally located. I slowly began to realize that I really needed 110 miles of good freeway range for three reasons.
1) degradation; I live in one of the best areas for EV battery health, but batteries degrade no matter how well they are treated. Two things degrade them in perfect conditions and that is time and cycling. My LEAF's new range was more than enough but after 33,000 miles, I realized that my LEAF would start losing its ability to cover my transportation needs in just a few more years.
2)Weather; It did not snow this year in Olympia. Ya, that's right, not a single significant snowfall this winter. So, it does not get real cold but it does get cold enough. My 2011 did not have the CWP (cold weather package) of the 2012's or the heat exchanger of the 2013's. So it was freeze or get a heated coat, or etc. But that only covered half the problem. Winter range degradation also involves cold batteries simply unable to take on as much charge as they can in Summer and cold air is denser so the car has to work harder to move and rain.
3) Need; Here, it rains a lot. water on the roads increases rolling resistance which also reduces range. So between the two, I figured I will be having issues making my basic commute next winter. Now, I also have changed jobs and that is a 55 mile commute. In the worst of Winter I am barely making that trip and its usually at 55 mph (or less) and no heat. But that is only part of the story. With the addition of the Fife QC station, I am able to use my car more often for work where I am reimbursed mileage. This has turned out to be a bit of a godsend. My average cost per mile is running right at 2.5 cents per mile and mileage reimbursement is tax free allowing me to bank nearly everything. Even a conservative estimate puts my "cash in pocket" at over $300 a month. It would be higher but I do have a mileage limitation for a lease I have to consider. Before I was on pace to only use about 38,000 of my 45,000 mile lease. But at the current rate I am going, I will run out of mileage allowance by Sept/Oct so will be incorporating the gas car for selective trips here and there.
Another note; Steve Marsh has put 76,000 miles on his LEAF in 2 years and I lent him my SOC meter so he could record his degradation and the first measurement came to 231 GID which works out to an 18% loss in what would be covered in 5-6 years normally. That might be workable but for three things.
1) my tax liability wont allow me to recover the entire $7500
2) Lease terms right now are simply too wonderful to pass up
3) And finally, there is no 110 mile EV on the horizon. Now, the RAV 4 EV does not count because it does not have chademo, so no QC, no sale!
**Note about my down payment on my lease. Putting down more than you are required to pay can be a risk especially with NMAC's somewhat shady business practices so make sure you verify with your insurance company what their payout process is if an accident happens and force them to research it before giving you an answer. the LEAF lease is apparently different (I don't have experience with any other leases so don't know for sure) than a normal lease.
When I did my lease, I was unable to get a good rate on lease or purchase due to my income level (my credit rating was about 830 at the time I think and I even offered up to a 50% down payment but they still would not lower the terms...) so a rough calculation of $8900 down reduced my total cost of loan to the best rates offered at the time. I had put the down payment before checking into the exact policy but was lucky enough that my insurance company did pay out replacement value whether it was a lease or purchase, so my down payment was not at risk. THIS IS NOT the case with all insurance policies.
Also, if you do get into an accident and you do get some money from your insurance company, make sure you call NMAC to check on the details of the pay out. You might get a financial surprise of the good kind!
Then Nissan announced the LEAF. I spent all of about 2 hours reading up on everything I could find online and then decided this was the car for me. I immediately shelved my Li plans (I was lucky in that if not for the shakiness of Chinese Cells and my apprehension in taking the plunge, I probably would have already done it!) and dumped in a set of deep cycle marine batteries with hopes that I could baby them long enough for my LEAF to arrive. April 20, 2010 I reserved my place in line for the LEAF!
Now, when considering the LEAF, I was working in town so my commute was insignificant. less than 12 miles roundtrip. I determined thru Google Maps that my most ambitious errand day would only be 70 miles but also at the time I was working 4-10 hour shifts and had 3 week days off so the errands could be spread out making it no more than 40 miles in a day; very manageable!
So decided on a purchase. I had to manipulate various stock options I had to insure my tax liability would be at least the $7500 the feds were offering and that was done quite easily. All this was based on a Dec 2010 delivery date that I received after my RAQ (request a quote) on August 31, 2010.
But 2010 came and went and still no LEAF. I ended up getting my LEAF Jan 18, 2011 in the very first batch of 3 delivered to WA State (there was actually 5 but the other 2 were earmarked for out of state owners) . So I became first to take a "normal" delivery of a LEAF in the state by a day over Patrick and Sam who got theirs the next day.
But the delay put in into a bit of a quandary. I no longer had the option to manipulate my tax liability again to get the full $7500. So I decided to lease and investigate a buyout later. (Besides, due to lack of "proper" income, I was unable to get a decent loan rate from them despite the offer to put 50% down!) So, I leased and to reduce my buyout amount, I put down $10,000 reducing my monthly payments (and rental fees!) to $162 a month.
It wasn't until a year after delivery that I realized that buying my LEAF would have been a mistake. I live at the very southern tip of Puget Sound which makes my driving distance needs much greater than one more centrally located. I slowly began to realize that I really needed 110 miles of good freeway range for three reasons.
1) degradation; I live in one of the best areas for EV battery health, but batteries degrade no matter how well they are treated. Two things degrade them in perfect conditions and that is time and cycling. My LEAF's new range was more than enough but after 33,000 miles, I realized that my LEAF would start losing its ability to cover my transportation needs in just a few more years.
2)Weather; It did not snow this year in Olympia. Ya, that's right, not a single significant snowfall this winter. So, it does not get real cold but it does get cold enough. My 2011 did not have the CWP (cold weather package) of the 2012's or the heat exchanger of the 2013's. So it was freeze or get a heated coat, or etc. But that only covered half the problem. Winter range degradation also involves cold batteries simply unable to take on as much charge as they can in Summer and cold air is denser so the car has to work harder to move and rain.
3) Need; Here, it rains a lot. water on the roads increases rolling resistance which also reduces range. So between the two, I figured I will be having issues making my basic commute next winter. Now, I also have changed jobs and that is a 55 mile commute. In the worst of Winter I am barely making that trip and its usually at 55 mph (or less) and no heat. But that is only part of the story. With the addition of the Fife QC station, I am able to use my car more often for work where I am reimbursed mileage. This has turned out to be a bit of a godsend. My average cost per mile is running right at 2.5 cents per mile and mileage reimbursement is tax free allowing me to bank nearly everything. Even a conservative estimate puts my "cash in pocket" at over $300 a month. It would be higher but I do have a mileage limitation for a lease I have to consider. Before I was on pace to only use about 38,000 of my 45,000 mile lease. But at the current rate I am going, I will run out of mileage allowance by Sept/Oct so will be incorporating the gas car for selective trips here and there.
Another note; Steve Marsh has put 76,000 miles on his LEAF in 2 years and I lent him my SOC meter so he could record his degradation and the first measurement came to 231 GID which works out to an 18% loss in what would be covered in 5-6 years normally. That might be workable but for three things.
1) my tax liability wont allow me to recover the entire $7500
2) Lease terms right now are simply too wonderful to pass up
3) And finally, there is no 110 mile EV on the horizon. Now, the RAV 4 EV does not count because it does not have chademo, so no QC, no sale!
**Note about my down payment on my lease. Putting down more than you are required to pay can be a risk especially with NMAC's somewhat shady business practices so make sure you verify with your insurance company what their payout process is if an accident happens and force them to research it before giving you an answer. the LEAF lease is apparently different (I don't have experience with any other leases so don't know for sure) than a normal lease.
When I did my lease, I was unable to get a good rate on lease or purchase due to my income level (my credit rating was about 830 at the time I think and I even offered up to a 50% down payment but they still would not lower the terms...) so a rough calculation of $8900 down reduced my total cost of loan to the best rates offered at the time. I had put the down payment before checking into the exact policy but was lucky enough that my insurance company did pay out replacement value whether it was a lease or purchase, so my down payment was not at risk. THIS IS NOT the case with all insurance policies.
Also, if you do get into an accident and you do get some money from your insurance company, make sure you call NMAC to check on the details of the pay out. You might get a financial surprise of the good kind!
Sunday, May 5, 2013
Are You An Optimist Or A Pessimist?
Saturday, May 4th, 2013 in Lacey, WA was a near perfect day to have a gathering of EV enthusiasts and "green" thinkers and that is exactly what happened with the 16th Annual Lacey Alternative Fuel Fair and Electric Car Rally held in Huntamer Park. A sunny day hitting 80º helped to attract one of the larger crowds in my memory and since this was my 9th time here, I have a lot of memories! (mostly of cold, windy, drizzly days!)
Most of the plug ins were there including the rare Ford Focus EV and the slightly more common C-Max and Fusion Energi's. All three were making their first appearance at the annual event.
As always I had the opportunity to talk with several people who were anywhere from killing time to being within a few weeks of a purchase decision. Now, this is where my role gets a bit tricky. The people I talked with could be loosely categorized into three groups; non-believers, pessimists, and optimists. We will skip the non-believers simply because they won't convert until a close friend, neighbor or family member does it first.
Now the Optimists can also be categorized as "selective believers" having read the LEAF gets 100 miles on a charge and they are thinking about getting the LEAF for their 90 mile commute especially after being reinforced that it will work because a salesman had reassured them and off the wall stuff like that. Unfortunately, about half of them had unrealistic expectations and as much as it pained me to do it, I had to show them all the ways the LEAF would not work for them because one unhappy owner can poison the well for his entire community.
But, all was not lost. It was the perfect opportunity to pitch the RAV 4 EV, the unfairness of "Compliance Cars", effective grass roots campaigning methods (wish I knew a few of them!) and the utter lack of affordable EV options (Lets face facts. It will be 3 years when I turn in my LEAF next Jan and my options to replace it?? well, its LEAF and uh?.... see what I mean!) WA needs to take California's lead on this and mandate the same. Do we have to wait until we can see colors in the air we breathe before we decide its time to take action?
Then we have the Pessimists (AKA fence sitters) who are interested in EVs, mostly drive Priuses and must be able to mathematically justify the purchase but tend to cherry pick reasons why it would not work for them. In this arena, I had probably a half dozen that walked away smug in their beliefs that they were right and I was not but also had several who now had a LOT more things to think about. Cant say that they were headed to the dealership to pull the trigger, but pretty sure I got a few to release the safety...
It is this group that really is my main purpose for being at the fair every year come rain or shine. I always start out with a tagline they have already heard which brings them in, then I shoot down that tagline with an explanation. Now, we have all heard the "$1999 down, 199 a month" but I tell them, get one with QC and pay the $230 with a map of the DCFCs for WA and OR in hand. Hard to shoot me down when I am armed with that much ammo!
Also long term degradation myths had to be dispelled. I have QC'd as much as 4 times a day. put over 100 miles on my LEAF at least 1-2 times a week and so on and I have seen 5% loss in my LEAF and Steve Marsh (who did pass 75,000 miles last week and will be borrowing my SOC meter to check his level on his 2nd anniversary May 15th) thinks he has lost 15% but still has all his CBs. (battery Capacity Bars) Too bad I did not think to have him check a bit earlier to have hard #'s (well as hard as you can get using Nissan's measuring tools!) to present at the Fair but oh well.
They might have gone from medium interest to very strong interest. After all, its easy to find a way that works for one since there are really a lot of good things about EVs but we already knew that right!
I also met up with someone who had talked to me last year. He ended up getting a LEAF and a Volt. He did say he almost wished he had gotten 2 LEAFs and admitted I was right in that it would have worked for him. He also mentioned the gasser had only been used once in the last 6 months and the Volt never uses gas due to Wife's 20 mile RT commute. (since he got the Volt, not sure why he still has the gas car!)
Finally, a father/son came by to say hi. The father "Glen" is not a Facebooker but was familiar with my blog and had a few questions about some of the topics discussed so I was pretty pleased about that. Both had leased and got great deals (after going out of the area) and both had concerns about the lack of support in their area. Glen lives in Grays Harbor County which is basically a well traveled area because it lies between Puget Sound and the WA Coast. He lamented about his inability to get to Westport (a major launching point for deepsea fishing) or Ocean Shores (major beach area) and back on a single charge (there is virtually no public charging of any kind there) which really reinforces the idea that WA needs to step in to provide the stations as a way to support tourism. The two mentioned areas are VERY prone to fluctuations in our economy due to their high reliance on tourist dollars and the all but gone wood products industry. The recent housing boom has actually created a few jobs as abandoned saw mills are coming back online to handle the increased demand for building supplies but that is most likely temporary and probably only good for a few years.
All in all, a great day for being outside and enjoying what WA has to offer which really reinforces the value of preserving the environment. Summer and Fair season is upon us and we must continue to be the informational conduit for the next wave of EV owners. I think we are now finally past the "bleeding edge" adopters and are now seeing the "Pioneers" which are not mainstream by any means but will be essential in getting the support that EVs need. After all, sales is just the beginning. Sustaining the value of EVs after they come home will be another challenge!
Most of the plug ins were there including the rare Ford Focus EV and the slightly more common C-Max and Fusion Energi's. All three were making their first appearance at the annual event.
As always I had the opportunity to talk with several people who were anywhere from killing time to being within a few weeks of a purchase decision. Now, this is where my role gets a bit tricky. The people I talked with could be loosely categorized into three groups; non-believers, pessimists, and optimists. We will skip the non-believers simply because they won't convert until a close friend, neighbor or family member does it first.
Now the Optimists can also be categorized as "selective believers" having read the LEAF gets 100 miles on a charge and they are thinking about getting the LEAF for their 90 mile commute especially after being reinforced that it will work because a salesman had reassured them and off the wall stuff like that. Unfortunately, about half of them had unrealistic expectations and as much as it pained me to do it, I had to show them all the ways the LEAF would not work for them because one unhappy owner can poison the well for his entire community.
But, all was not lost. It was the perfect opportunity to pitch the RAV 4 EV, the unfairness of "Compliance Cars", effective grass roots campaigning methods (wish I knew a few of them!) and the utter lack of affordable EV options (Lets face facts. It will be 3 years when I turn in my LEAF next Jan and my options to replace it?? well, its LEAF and uh?.... see what I mean!) WA needs to take California's lead on this and mandate the same. Do we have to wait until we can see colors in the air we breathe before we decide its time to take action?
Then we have the Pessimists (AKA fence sitters) who are interested in EVs, mostly drive Priuses and must be able to mathematically justify the purchase but tend to cherry pick reasons why it would not work for them. In this arena, I had probably a half dozen that walked away smug in their beliefs that they were right and I was not but also had several who now had a LOT more things to think about. Cant say that they were headed to the dealership to pull the trigger, but pretty sure I got a few to release the safety...
It is this group that really is my main purpose for being at the fair every year come rain or shine. I always start out with a tagline they have already heard which brings them in, then I shoot down that tagline with an explanation. Now, we have all heard the "$1999 down, 199 a month" but I tell them, get one with QC and pay the $230 with a map of the DCFCs for WA and OR in hand. Hard to shoot me down when I am armed with that much ammo!
Also long term degradation myths had to be dispelled. I have QC'd as much as 4 times a day. put over 100 miles on my LEAF at least 1-2 times a week and so on and I have seen 5% loss in my LEAF and Steve Marsh (who did pass 75,000 miles last week and will be borrowing my SOC meter to check his level on his 2nd anniversary May 15th) thinks he has lost 15% but still has all his CBs. (battery Capacity Bars) Too bad I did not think to have him check a bit earlier to have hard #'s (well as hard as you can get using Nissan's measuring tools!) to present at the Fair but oh well.
They might have gone from medium interest to very strong interest. After all, its easy to find a way that works for one since there are really a lot of good things about EVs but we already knew that right!
I also met up with someone who had talked to me last year. He ended up getting a LEAF and a Volt. He did say he almost wished he had gotten 2 LEAFs and admitted I was right in that it would have worked for him. He also mentioned the gasser had only been used once in the last 6 months and the Volt never uses gas due to Wife's 20 mile RT commute. (since he got the Volt, not sure why he still has the gas car!)
Finally, a father/son came by to say hi. The father "Glen" is not a Facebooker but was familiar with my blog and had a few questions about some of the topics discussed so I was pretty pleased about that. Both had leased and got great deals (after going out of the area) and both had concerns about the lack of support in their area. Glen lives in Grays Harbor County which is basically a well traveled area because it lies between Puget Sound and the WA Coast. He lamented about his inability to get to Westport (a major launching point for deepsea fishing) or Ocean Shores (major beach area) and back on a single charge (there is virtually no public charging of any kind there) which really reinforces the idea that WA needs to step in to provide the stations as a way to support tourism. The two mentioned areas are VERY prone to fluctuations in our economy due to their high reliance on tourist dollars and the all but gone wood products industry. The recent housing boom has actually created a few jobs as abandoned saw mills are coming back online to handle the increased demand for building supplies but that is most likely temporary and probably only good for a few years.
All in all, a great day for being outside and enjoying what WA has to offer which really reinforces the value of preserving the environment. Summer and Fair season is upon us and we must continue to be the informational conduit for the next wave of EV owners. I think we are now finally past the "bleeding edge" adopters and are now seeing the "Pioneers" which are not mainstream by any means but will be essential in getting the support that EVs need. After all, sales is just the beginning. Sustaining the value of EVs after they come home will be another challenge!
Wednesday, May 1, 2013
Charging Quirks
For the past few days, I have had to charge away from home so no 240 volt/ 12 amp, nestled in a semi-warm garage environment. It has been outside in the cold, 120 volt trickle charging for me.
Now before the past 2 days, my charges have been showing what I would consider to be inflated GID values.
GID counts at 240 volt charging has run between 274 and 280 (twice) with two 273's over the past few months. After 32,000 + miles, I always found that hard to believe and I have always thought the GID count to be an approximation anyway. Changes in tires has made a true evaluation of degradation by range testing impossible.
But GID count on 120 has been 270, 269 which in itself, I think means very little except that the last time it was that low was back in Nov right after we had moved and I was charging at 120 for a week (also had space issues due to move and 120 was the only thing that would reach) and then went back to 240 and had GID counts in the 265-270 range for a week before jumping back up into the 275 range.
All this has brought up questions. Is 120 so slow that it is not finishing its initial charge soon enough to enable a rebalance charge? both days, the charge completed at 7 AM but didn't go anywhere yesterday until 11 AM so seems like it would have had plenty of time.
Or is 240 charging at a faster rate and overshooting the BMS allowing a slightly higher finishing point?
Or is it the cold that is reducing the capacity of the battery?
**edit 5/6/2013**
The GID count continues to drop reaching 263 this morning. Now, don't know if this matters but weather has been unseasonably warm. In fact, at 84º yesterday, it does not fit into any season (August, our hottest month has average highs only reaching 78º) Either way, I will be continuing the 120 volt charging for a while to see if GIDs go any lower or change when the weather gets back to normal
Now before the past 2 days, my charges have been showing what I would consider to be inflated GID values.
GID counts at 240 volt charging has run between 274 and 280 (twice) with two 273's over the past few months. After 32,000 + miles, I always found that hard to believe and I have always thought the GID count to be an approximation anyway. Changes in tires has made a true evaluation of degradation by range testing impossible.
But GID count on 120 has been 270, 269 which in itself, I think means very little except that the last time it was that low was back in Nov right after we had moved and I was charging at 120 for a week (also had space issues due to move and 120 was the only thing that would reach) and then went back to 240 and had GID counts in the 265-270 range for a week before jumping back up into the 275 range.
All this has brought up questions. Is 120 so slow that it is not finishing its initial charge soon enough to enable a rebalance charge? both days, the charge completed at 7 AM but didn't go anywhere yesterday until 11 AM so seems like it would have had plenty of time.
Or is 240 charging at a faster rate and overshooting the BMS allowing a slightly higher finishing point?
Or is it the cold that is reducing the capacity of the battery?
**edit 5/6/2013**
The GID count continues to drop reaching 263 this morning. Now, don't know if this matters but weather has been unseasonably warm. In fact, at 84º yesterday, it does not fit into any season (August, our hottest month has average highs only reaching 78º) Either way, I will be continuing the 120 volt charging for a while to see if GIDs go any lower or change when the weather gets back to normal
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