Once again it seems like public charging fees are making way more news than they should be making. But recently one network made statements inferring that the only "fair" way was to charge by the Kwh. They justified the comment with saying that its how gasoline is billed so its fair right? Well that is one way to look at it but the way I see it is that is like charging $3.00 a gallon for gasoline in a pickup but charging $4.00 a gallon for a Corolla because it can do more with that gallon so it should pay more for the same gallon??
Another point they brought up is that cars charge at different rates. So a Volt would be penalized because it charged slower if charged by time. Umm, like so what! If the Volt owner wants their fair share of juice, then they should not have gotten a Volt. You get what you pay for. I have a LEAF with a 6KW charger that I PAID FOR. I could have saved money by simply accepting the 3.8 KW charger but I did not because I want the convenience of getting a faster charge AND saving money on public charging fees.
Now; if things were a little different, then ok, charging by the KWH could make sense but the problem we have is too many cars (Ya, they hot around here!) and a very limited number of plugs to go around. So, it becomes a question of serving the public. When billing by the Kwh, there will be people who will spend 15 minutes on a 50 KW charger getting that last kwh (at a rate of 4 KW) while people are waiting impatiently behind them. So now, the public loses out, the network provider loses out. NO ONE WINS HERE
But if we are billed by plug time, then most would think twice about paying say $2.50 a kwh... They would be more apt to get what they need and move on. Remember on a fast charger, the more you charge, the slower the rate which means the greater your cost per mile.
But there is a light at the end of the tunnel! Greenlots has announced at charging rate of $10 per hour at their fast chargers in Seattle which will be billed by the minute at 17 cents a minute! Details are a bit sketchy as this announcement is literally a few hours old but what we need to do is get behind this company and show them AND OTHERS that a per minute billing system will work and will have the greatest amount of acceptance!
Another fine example of charging is the chargepoint Charger in Gig Harbor, WA who bills by the minute at the rate of 50 cents an hour. I plugged in for 45 minutes and 33 seconds the other day and was billed 38 cents. Since I was charging at just over 6.1 KW, that power is cheaper than I can charge at home!!
**Edit** Ok, the rates set by Greenlots are as the managing entity of the charging stations and the rates are actually set by the host which in this case is Whole Foods at their Seattle Store. IOW, they run similar to Chargepoint
The website linked above says little about their network but they do have a map on their mobile app which can be downloaded for both Apple and Android
Greenlots is one of the charging station network operators. One thing they do is offer the network management services so other companies can more easily set up charging station networks.
ReplyDeleteIf you plug your Nissan into a Greenlots charger at 17 cents a minute, you'll be paying $1.70/kWh, or $17.52 per "e-gallon." If you think that's a good idea, well then you know what they say about a fool and his money.
ReplyDeleteYou are mixing up my stations. the Chargepoint I collected a charge at the rate of 6.1ish KW was 40 cents an hour so 45 minutes was about 38 cents. The Greenlots charger has a capability of delivering 60 KW (although a LEAF maxes out at like 48 KW for a brief amount of time during a charge session) which means potentially getting Kwh at 17 cents each. This is the max rate and unrealistic. What is realistic is getting 12 kwh in 30 minutes which is about my average for a 30 minute charge and that would be about 41 cents a Kwh. But MOST of the time, I charge for 10 minutes and get 6-7 kwh which puts my cost under 30 cents /kwh.
DeleteI thought the new LEAFs maxed out at 30 amps x 240 volts. If so, you couldn't get 12kWh in 30 minutes. Where am I wrong?
DeleteThe LEAF has a CHAdeMO port for DC Quick Charging. The maximum rate it supports for charging this way is 60 kW, but it tapers off as the battery gets full.
DeleteTyrel is correct. We are talking two completely different charging scenarios. the one is fast charging which is DC power directly to the battery. that can be as much as 48 KW and typically runs just under 400 volts. There is also AC charging which is at 240 volts and has rated 6 KW charger which would be about 25 amps. I typically see around 6.120-6.160 KW
DeleteHow many volts, how many amps in DC mode?
Deletetheoretically 120 amps at 400 volts but never actually seen that. best I have seen is 105 amps and voltage varies a bit but typically see 392-394 volts. Keep in mind the max amperage is only seen for a very brief period of time. The ramp down starts pretty fast.
DeleteThat would work out to roughly 40 kWh per hour, or two-thirds of a kWh per minute. At a rate of 17 cents a minute, that would be 25 cents/kWh, or $2.58 per equivalent gallon. Better than gasoline, but still not a screaming bargain.
DeleteBut DC chargers would make it possible to upload about 60 miles of range in a half an hour, depending on the season. Better than most public chargers, but still not anything close to a gas fill-up which uploads 60 miles of range in about 1 minute. How common are DC chargers, anyway?
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DeletePlugshare.com is the best place to see an answer to your question. The orange icons on the map are CHAdeMO chargers (and Tesla Superchargers). Public EVSE pricing is designed for one of two purposes 1- To attract moneyed customers to your site, 2- put a big markup on electricity, but not so high that they'll leave the EV at home for longer trips. EVSE that's on government and private employee lots was put out for more altruistic reasons, and is usually cheaper.
DeleteIncorrect info in your blog post. "Greenlots has announced at charging rate of $10 per hour at their fast chargers in Seattle" Greenlots is the OCPP network operator selected by the property owner to provide the back end for the OCPP compliant ABB charger. The property owner sets the rates. Rich Feldman
ReplyDeletethank you Rich. I have corrected my erroneous ways!
DeleteAny bargain at all while on the road is a great deal! Charging away from home shouldnt be a bargain. Its like buying bottled water for $1.29. People pay the price because of the convenience and its far from a good deal. Even Trader Joe's selling individual waters for 35 cents is a rip off despite being waaay cheaper than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteBut at the same time, electricity is relatively cheap and my hope is that businesses will see the value of attracting EVs when they gain a bit more market share and I see free charging or at least free charging with a purchase. After all, L2 charging can be as cheap as 25 cents for most customers and even an hour is enough to get a pretty good boost at 6 KW